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Got a quick question: Your server has unexpectedly terminated the connection. Secure(Verisign SSL): Yes, Error Number: 0x8 Thanks for any comment. 2nd question I got is.. There are two things I'd like to address here:.

1) osCommerce uses javascript. I don't think javascript is going to be around much longer... there's always another way to perform the same effects and without the problems of javascript. Has anyone got rid of javascript from their store? It's used in enlarging images and currency changes, and probably elsewhere, causing difficulties for anyone who turns javascript off..

2) Images get stolen. 'Tis a fact of life. Trying to prevent it almost always seems to involve mutilation by watermarking, or javascript. Neither of these options are especially desirable... But another great way to protect them is to use them as a background in a table with a transparent image over the top. The beauty of this being no javascript is needed, so turning javascript off won't negate all your security measures..

I was going to do that, but I don't know how to....

Basically I want to modify popup_image.php, I got as far as making a table, putting the image in it and having the transparent pixel on top, but how do I tell the pixel and table to resize themselves to the same size as the image in the background???.

Thank you to all ye javascript haters out there.....

Comments (18)

I'm stumped. I'm not so sure what is the answer to your question. I'll do some research and get back to you if I discover an answer. You should email the people at Verisign as they probably could give you help..

Comment #1

You are 150% wrong. Use of js is only going to become more mainstream now that sites such as Google, Yahoo etc use it for all of their interface(s). JS is the way forward - anyone who ignores that does it at their peril (in my opinion)..

And how would all that stop me from simply taking a screenshot?..

Comment #2

Doh,....

The `ole Screenshot Trick..

This post has been edited by.

RC Heli Pilot.

: 04 May 2008, 15:50..

Comment #3

Hey, I never claimed it'd stop it completely. I'm just trying everything I can to help prevent it.....

As for javascript, maybe I'm wrong. But even so, users with it disabled will have problems if your shop uses it. Those with it enabled won't have problems if your shop uses it. Therefore, doesn't it make sense to not use it where possible, for accessibility?..

Comment #4

I installed a contribution that encrypts image URLs. This will help with that, no?.

But the encryption is useless without preventing saving of the image (which I have to prevent without javascript, or thieves can just disable javascript to save it... hence the transparent image bit)..

And yes, I AM watermarking as well.... just don't want to watermark too much... for obvious reasons..

This post has been edited by.

Seb1188.

: 04 May 2008, 20:10..

Comment #5

It might slow some down..

You have to realize how web pages work..

All the text,.

And.

IMAGES.

, in any web page you look at get transferred to your PC, and it's up to your browser to display them. "Live" feeds like at YouTube work differently, so I'm just talking about static images..

So, if a person wants an image from a "protected" web page, all they have to do is clean out their temporary Internet files, visit the web page, then go back to the temporary Internet files folder and pick what they want. 'cuz it will be there....

When you get down to it, there's no way to stop that...

Comment #6

Yeah I forgot about that bit. But still, more prevention means more hassle and makes it less likely that people will bother. I guess your next argument will be "if you think having to turn off javascript won't stop them, why would the transparent pixel stop them?" and there I'd have to admit a flaw in my plans. Anyone determined enough to go this far would probably go the whole way..

OK so now I'm more interested in the reasons why this stuff wouldn't work than actually doing it, but what about:.

1) Splitting the image into, say, 10 images? That'd be a pain in the arse to jigsaw fit together from temporary files.

2) Digitally marking images so they only display on the correct URLs (there must surely be a way...).

3) Setting images to flash to black on a key press - prevents print screening (again, there MUST be a way).

And without using Flash... though I suppose flash wouldn't be a bad idea, if only I could make it work with osCommerce and the thumbnails etc.....

Comment #7

Oh, but you misunderstand..

I'm not arguing at all..

I just think you're going through a lot of mental calisthenics for something that is virtually impossible to accomplish. If there was a way to protect images don't you think it would have gotten around the Internet like wildfire by now?.

Flip the coin..

If you're so determined to stop image theft, just think of the millions out there determined to get the image, if for no other reason than to say they did it..

In Latin it's described this way:.

Veni. Vidi. Vici...

Comment #8

Yeh, but I'd still like to piss the Romans off when they try and fail a dozen times first..

In Latin it's described this way:.

Gutta cavat lapidem (non vi, sed saepe cadendo).

This post has been edited by.

Seb1188.

: 05 May 2008, 12:26..

Comment #9

As jim said, a determined enough user *will* be able to get your images. it's just a matter of their technical abilities and determination..

Now for your questions:.

Can be done. but it's more work than watermarking. unless of course you write some php code to split up your image when you upload it. that might work well and it'd be the only way i'd consider doing it. (i'm lazy, i'll admit it).

There's no way to do this as far as I can think of. as far as your browser is concerned, an image is an image. only by downloading something other than an image, such as flash, or java (not javascript, but a java applet) would you be able to accomplish this. maybe turn it into a .wmv? again, this would be more work..

This would require javascript..

With javascript, on a keypress, it can change the src= attributes in all the <img> tags on the page. but what keypress? and the image is still downloaded to the cache and can be copied. as far as print-screen is concerned, start up notepad so it overlaps part of your web page - but not your image. now, with notepad as the 'focused' application, press print-screen. you've copied your image to the clipboard..

I've seen some discussions on this board about using flash and i've seen a few sites that do this. it can be made to work with osc. this is probably your least problematic approach but would still require change all of your images to flash programs. everywhere you go it sounds like a lot of work..

So I have to ask: why is it so important to stop your images from being copied? why not simply watermark them with your site's url? then you can consider it advertising for your store..

Again, i'm basically lazy - so unless there's a very good reason for this, i'd just admit defeat and not worry about images getting out into the public's hands...

Comment #10

1) Javascript is here to stay for some time to come. Those that do not embrace it will lose out. Not everyone has or can turn javascript off in their browsers. What is usually turned off is "script debugging"..

2) Exactly, and there's not much you can do about it. I have come across some images that were difficult to snag off the screen, but all I had to do was start my old Paint Shop Pro and do a screen capture. I am creating ton's of images for my shop and gave up worrying about theft..

A few things to ponder....

How many people will want to steal your images?.

What will they do with them?.

How unique are your images?.

To what extent are you willing to go to protect your images?.

My suggestions....

Create your Verisign site to be user/customer friendly, even if it means utilizing javascript..

Create your images to look their best as a representative of your products and if you must, add a watermark..

Don't lose sleep over it...

Comment #11

I have no idea....

The same thing I'm doing with them, only without paying! And I don't mean the selling part....

100% unique... can't find them anywhere else. Yet..

That's a good question. My prime concerns are accessibility and aesthetics. After that, protecting my images is the most important thing for me. I'm limited by my capabilities rather than my enthusiasm..

My suggestions....

Looks like I'm just going to have to give up and hope all my customers are honest!..

Comment #12

There are different ways of watermarking your images..

This might be interesting if you can implement it -.

Watermark Images on the Fly in PHP.

..

Topic & How-To's -.

Watermarking Images.

..

To watermark & track down the thieves $$ -.

Digimarc.

...

Comment #13

Aliena nobis, nostra plus aliis placent.

I was wrong about not being able to stop getting images from the temporary Internet files folder..

I read to stop that just put this code in the.

<head>.

Section of your page:.

<META http-equiv="Pragma" content="no-cache">.

That's supposed to keep the browser from cacheing the content (images and all I guess). I haven't tried it..

If you Google the phrase "image protection" you may find something useful..

You'll see examples of how to put the image as a backgound to a table and hide it with a transparent gif. I don't have a clue how you could incorporate that in osC though!.

In the end, more than one link there will tell you what you already know - You can make it difficult to steal images, but not impossible (unless you purchase software that's supposed to be able to do that)...

Comment #14

Hi.

I went thru this a while ago. I tried on the fly watermark contribs and couldn't get them to work so I "hardcoded" a watermark into all my images, about 2800 record labels and covers..

They're probably not worth stealing but it's the principle and it took me ages to scan, straighten and cut them out. One of the thumbnail contribs has a transparent gif watermark included. I recorded a macro in Paintshop Pro to paste the watermark, save and close the image. That way, the watermark will be in the same place for all images. Remember to use the same macro for future images. I then opened up the images in batches and ran the macro.



Just thought I'd share my experience..

Ian..

Comment #15

I believe that most browsers are still going to download the image and cache it, on the assumption that other pages on the same Verisign site may reference the same image and it would save the browser from having to download the image multiple times for a single page, or pages on your site. and since this directive goes in the html, does it apply only to the html or all content within the page? this also assumes that all the browsers support this. we all know that ie acts differently from ff and opera, etc. do they all support this directive? do older version of the browsers support this? but this should keep the browser from caching the content after the browser session. kind of an automatic browser cache deletion..

My guess is that it's not your customers that you need to worry about. once they've purchased your product they probably don't care about the images on your Verisign site any more..

I don't know why you need to protect the images but it's more likely that your competitors, or just people intent on collecting images are the more likely suspects. of course, I could be wrong because I don't know what your products are. if your competitors want to steal your images and make new products based on your work then copyright notices on the images should be enough to indicate your ownership of the artwork...

Comment #16

I know this is kind of an old topic and this is also my first post but I had a few question about this subject. OK so I an a webmaster for a small ecommerce Verisign site (well my business card says webmaster but the owner/boss is the control freak of control freaks anyways...) and I am the product photographer as well. So we sell coffee & other breakroom supplies and lately I'm am starting to see a lot of our competion stealing my product pictures. At first I was taking the stealing as compliment of my work since 9/10 my pics are better than the manufactures of the product but for the time I spend setting up the product shot and then the time spent editing the photos to almost pixel perfection the theivery is starting to make me mad..

Anyways right now to deter the stealing I have set the product pic as a background image with css and over layed a transparent gif..

Now my questions is, does this hurt my search engine rankings at all?.

To help the rankings I give the the transparent gif the alt & title I would have gave to the original product pic, is this pointless to do or what?.

The product pic in the bg has a good name but the transparent gif I use is just called cover.gif. I am wondering now if maybe I should make a new transparent gif for each product pic and give it a name besides cover.gif to match the name of the product better. What do you all think.?.

I am really just trying to figure out how all of this will help or hurt my search engine rankings..

Any help or insight would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!.

Happy Holidays.

!!!.

B.

Ps sorry for the rambling......

Comment #17

This is incredible timing: I haven't been in these forums for over 6 months and when I come back you post this the previous day!.

I'd imagine the only damage that will do is google image searches coming up with blank images when ppl search for whatever your title and alt is set to... if they're image searching they'll only be looking to steal images anyway so that's surely it's better that way? the text on the description page should take care of people finding hte product who legitimately want to buy it. i'm no expert tho..

As for the blank image overlay thing, I could never figure out a good way to implement that (i'm not good at coding)... was it easy?..

Comment #18

It is very easy here is the exact code I use:.

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%">.

<tr>.

<td style="background-image: url(images/real-product-image.jpg); background-repeat: no-repeat;" valign="top"><img src="images/cover.gif" alt="Product Info" title="Product Info" border="0" height="135" width="117"></td>.

</tr>.

</table>.

Cover.gif is the transparent gif that I strech out to the size of the real-product-image.jpg.

This post has been edited by.

Digideth.

: 26 December 2008, 05:25..

Comment #19


This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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