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My first question is: Which is a better web host, Yahoo or GoDaddy?.

My next question is: This subject deserves a new thread. The original .asia scam thread is here.

Most of the posts there are from frustrated domainers like myself during the .asia registration process debacle, but now that it's over there is clear evidence that in fact the whole process was corrupt.

The details can be found here. here.

In my case I registered February 20 2008 and waited patiently for an auction that never came, only to find out that the CEO of the auction company grabbed that name.

Are there any others here who had the same experience as me who can find their HostGator in Richard Schreier's portfolio? click here for the HostGator list..

Comments (89)

Your question was: Which is a better web host, Yahoo or GoDaddy?.

Wasn't the name snagged based on a TM ?

Comment #1

Wow... I really haven't been following the .asia news, but that's absolutely shameful.

Makes me really wonder how honest the backorder/auction process is over at Pool...

Comment #2

If you had all those resources, wouldn't you keep a couple domains for yourself too?..

Comment #3

With how much money he already makes as CEO of Pool, ruining my reputation and that of my company would be the last thing on my mind if I were in his shoes.....

Comment #4

Wow! just goes to show you the rich get richer by defrauding the system BECAUSE THEY CREATED IT AND RUN IT!!.

If this is true it certainly shed salot of light on why this business is such an incestous one.

Domain Barons making huge $$$$$$ from unethical practices!..

Comment #5

If you defrauded people like this in the real world, you'd find yourself behind bars and for a very long time.....

Comment #6

Maybe there is more here then meets the eye. Maybe he is holding them due to potential lawsuits???..

Comment #7

Yes reece we are in infancy of the internet yet. I hope in future when our kids are grown up the internet will have some solid rules and laws. Right now many many loopholes and I wish those would get patched as soon as possible so an honest person can live honestly without getting banged and thrown around.

Newbies mostly are taken for a free ride They don't even have to pay fare someone gives them a free lift now and then...

Comment #8

And this is why who runs the registry makes a difference.

If the registry is a mess, then it doesn't matter if there are a "billion plus local potential buyers/users."..

Comment #9

If this is really true or a sembalance of the truth it re-enforces what I felt all along. DOMAINING IS RIGGED at some levels and it is in dire need of a tune up big time! The people that created the business run it regulate it and profit from it. Sounds like a monopoly to me and thats illegal where I am from. Many major HostGator players didnt get rich from their foresight in regging domains and sitting on them, they got rich from the SYSTEM THEY created that made their portfolios what they are today!..

Comment #10

I appreciate everybody's comments and welcome more.

That was supposably the whole point of the .asia registration process. That these issues would all run it's course, and that all TM issues and rights of ownership issues prior to landrush would be eliminated with this process. That was the deal that was offered, that was the sales pitch.

The issue here is why are these domains in the hands of the CEO of the auction company? And why is there no proof with many domains of any auctions ever taking place?.

Since their sales pitch was that by the time I successfully registered' that those issues would have already been resolved. It was bad enough in itself that for the first time in HostGator name history that a registrar allowed multiple registrations on the same name following a lengthy multi-step process, while notifying TM holders and the like, and following would go to auction if more than one registered the same name which would of course drive up the price we would all have to pay. These names are as generic as

If I were Richard Schreier, or the .ASIA registry; I would definitely be worried about lawsuits as well, but the damage has already been done.

Still looking for other domainers who found their name on the list...

Comment #11

This is the ongoing dialogue I have been having with Scrhierer over the .asia auctions. See wat you get out of it.

************************************************** ******.

05/31/2008 02:54 AM.

When will be putting up the answers to exactly how they.

Acquired so many top domains in .asia. for ridiculous prices,.

While acting as the auctioneer..

Dr. Maguire.

> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 4:34 PM.

> Subject: Not Very fishy at all..



Dr. Maguire.

Your recent inquiry through our customer service department has been.

Escalated to me to respond to. I have in fact posted on a number of.

Public sites all of the relevant information in regards to this.

Situation. I am more than delighted to provide you with the same.

Information as it appears you are also misinformed.

First, has not acquired ANY .asia HostGator names. is.

An auction agent and throughout all of the auctions we run across all.

Tlds, the only domains that remain in our possession or those of our.

Partners are those that customers do not pay for and where we, as a result, are stuck with the registration. In the case of .asia, all unpaid domains are returned to the registry. does provide domain.

Administration and technical services for select customers and in.

These cases we may appear as the Admin or Technical contact for a domain.

Registration. We do not appear as the registrant.

Second, it has been alleged that or I (Richard Schreier) have.

An ownership interest in Drake Ventures, a company that has.

Successfully registered a number of .asia domains. As stated publicly, neither I nor have any ownership interest in Drake Domains Corporation, Drake.

Ventures Limited or Throne Ventures Pty. Ltd. The ongoing allegations.

That either or I (Richard Schreier) are benefiting from the.

Registration of domains by Drake Ventures is totally false. I am.

Further appalled at the notion that I would be referred to as "lucky.

Rich" or the "domain tycoon".

Third, it has been alleged that Drake Ventures used some kind of.

Preferred "inside" status with to successfully bid on.

Competitive auctions. Again, as stated publicly, Drake Ventures WON.

Only 3/21 of the auctions they were in. They LOST the other 18. And.

The 3 they WON had no competitive bids against them. There was no bidding knowledge in securing these domains, particularly when you realize.

That the applications had to be submitted and approved well in advance of.

The auctions being declared. Drake Ventures was provided with the same.

List of auction participants as provided to each participant by the DotAsia.

Registry as was the case for ALL Sunrise auctions.

Fourth, it is also a matter of public record that bids were placed by.

Drake Ventures at the start of an auction and no further bidding was.

Made once the initial bid had been placed. To act on "inside.

Information" would suggest that bidding continues once competitive.

Bids are known. Auction history records, publicly available to all auction.

Participants, show that Drake Ventures one and only bid for each.

Auction were submitted on the first day of an auction and no further bidding.


Fifth, it is true that Drake Ventures has successfully acquired a.

Number of premium domains, all of which were applied for in the Sunrise.

Period and were awarded by the registry to Drake Ventures as the one and only application. These had to be verified by the third party independent.

Agent provided by the registry. had no role to play in these.

Allocations. The information about all of these registrations and the.

Fact that they DID NOT GO TO AUCTION is all available publicly.

If you would care to do some additional research, I would suggest you.

Consider looking at the following:.

1. The DotAsia SunRise service that will identify under which phase.

Of release domains were awarded. Recall that the Sunrise Phase was.

Provided to all applications who could successfully demonstrate a.

Prior right which had to be validated by an independent agent. Any domain.

That was not allocated during the Sunrise period would be eligible for.

Registration in the subsequent Landrush.


The Full List of Closed auctions is also available on the.

DotAsia site which lists ALL domains that went to auction, the closing.

Price and the date of the auction. Any domains NOT listed in this.

Report were NOT held to auction. If you search for the domains that.

Were acquired by Drake Ventures you will discover they did not go to.

Auction and therefore played NO ROLE in their award. One.

Good example, again which I have used publicly, is which was.

Awarded in SR2B and did not go to auction which means the registry.

Only received a single verified application for this HostGator during the.

Sunrise period.



Richard Schreier.

Mr. Schreier:.

Aside from finding it almost implausible that there was not more than 1 person that would apply for or have the knowledge to make their.

Application verifiable, especially on such a well-know generic, let me expand on my query.

During the initial Sunrise phase, along with a Hong Kong based.

Partner, we made application for A name substantially similar to.

Yours except with a different use in mind. Quite frankly, I had never even.

Heard of your company until 10 days ago, as I am not a domainer, so to speak but a businessman who saw opportunity on .asia domains.

We were never apprised any further on our application, and from.

Scarce answers available, were eventually able to determine that their would.

Be auctions on names where multiple applications had been involved.

We were never apprised of any upcoming auctions for our involvement.

And my research could not find any completed auction for nor any.

Listing in any who is database.

So where did go, who has it and why we never notified? I.

Understand from a number of people that they have had similar experiences of being seemingly just disregarded and that these have ended up in the.

Hands of others.

6 days ago, I did a search and it showed was available. I.

Went through the registration process with EuroDNS and after getting.

Nothing for 4 days, contacted them again only to be told this was an unavailable HostGator.

I own a television studio and am fairly well-renowned for taking on consumer issues of fraud and bringing them to the television platform.

Of course, in journalistic fairness, I contacted you first, as I am more interested in resolution to my problem.

Dr. Maguire.

Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:22 AM.

Subject: RE: Not Very fishy at all.

Dr Maguire,.

Thank you for your candid response and obvious clear thought on this.

Issue. I can't comment on why there would have been limited.

Applications for some domains during the Sunrise period. But I can.

Offer you some statistics which may shed some light. Of course you know.

That the most recent sale of was for $14M, you may also know.

That had more than 215 applications in their Sunrise.,.

Which only had 5 verified applications (the registry published that.

There were 14 initial applications which means that 9 were rejected by.

The verification agent) in Sunrise, closed yesterday for about $83K. I.

Think these numbers simply serve to demonstrate the current market.

Awareness and perhaps interest for .asia domains. I believe the release.

Of the TLD is well within the expectations of the registry and so can.

Only suggest that the lack of applications in Sunrise is more a.

Reflection of current market attitudes.

I think it also important to explain briefly how the Sunrise domains.

Were managed. During a very specific period, the registry accepted.

Applications along with verifiable proof of a prior right claim. These.

Submissions were made through registrars to the registry operator and.

Once received were passed along to one of two independent verification.

Agents. Where more than a single application was received and verified,.

The HostGator was scheduled for auction and the registry informed ALL of.

The participants of who qualified and on what prior right. My point in.

Explaining this is to point out that it would be very difficult indeed.

For the registry to arbitrarily decide to eliminate applications and.

Create "single order" applications where multiple applications were.

Received in the first place. More so, it would not be in the best.

Interests of the registry to do so as this would certainly be revenue.

Limiting. And, as I mentioned before, had no role to play in.

Applications prior to a decision being made by the registry to place the.

Domain in auction. Any questions you have about how the verification.

Process or how the management of applications was conducted would best.

Be addressed to the registry or perhaps their verification agent,.

Deloitte Touche (there was a second Hong Kong based verification agent.

As well).

I appreciate wondering how a well known HostGator like could only.

Receive a single verified application during Sunrise but would point out.

That if in fact there were additional applications that were somehow.

Suppressed or ignored by the registry, then those applicants had a.

Dispute procedure that would allow challenges of the verification agents.

Decisions. In turn, any resulting auction would be delayed. Not only.

Would the potential registrant have reason to dispute their application,.

So would their registrar who also stood to gain on sales commissions in.

The event the HostGator was awarded to their customer. I am not aware of.

Any such challenges throughout the Sunrise period although again that.

Question is better addressed to the registry since had no role.

To play in that process.

On your second query in regards to "", this is one of two.

Domains for which did make explicit applications. We were not.

Awarded the other one which was not even accepted for the next phase of.

Public evaluationOur application was presented as part of the.

Pioneer Program for "Partner Pioneers" which occurred in advance of.

Sunrise and was held under public scrutiny. There is a lot of public.

Information on the Pioneer Program at The process essentially.

Accepted applications for up to two HostGator names accompanied by a.

Specific plan of use for the domain.

The interesting part of the Pioneers Program is that the Registry made.

All the applications public through ICANNWiki, and encouraged the public.

To provide comment and actually vote on whether a pioneer application.

Should be awarded (39% of the HostGator names posted to the wiki through.

The PDP were voted and commented on by members of the global online.

Community). You can see the full list of Partner domains at:

Er and will notice most are names of registrars and similar .ASIA.

Partners. I can't comment on how the registry is currently displaying.

The whois information (they suggest the HostGator is a government reserved.

Name but I think this may be a limitation at the registry operator.

(Afilias) in supporting the Pioneers program) nor can I comment on how.

You may have determined the HostGator was available. was advised.

On January 15, 2008 that our Pioneer application had been accepted. The.

Remaining contractual paperwork is still in process.

So, in regards to your Sunrise application for, at the time.

Your application would have been accepted such that in the event a prior.

Award failed, then the allocation process would naturally cascade into.

The next phase of acquisition. So, for example, even a Landrush.

Application would be accepted for a Pioneer HostGator because of the.

Possibility that it would ultimately not be awarded in the PDP, might.

Not also be awarded in Sunrise and therefore would cascade into the.

Landrush program. The registry has always allowed subsequent phase.

Applications to be submitted (there has never been any cost at the.

Registry associated with submitting an application other than.

Verification fees during Sunrise) to provide for those situations where.

A HostGator does not get awarded in a previous phase.

DotAsia has used many creative ways to try and bring interest to their.

TLD. The Pioneer Program was one initial foray that was intended to.

Build early interest prior to the Sunrise.

Currently, the registry is in "GoLive" status which means any HostGator not.

Previously applied for can now be registered on a first come first serve.

Basis. Any applications accepted now will not result in an auction.

Unless applications cascade forward from previous phases.

I have seen discrepancies between what some registrars have informed.

Their customers about HostGator availability and would suggest that any.

Domain "check" you would like to perform should be using the DotAsia.

Whois service (ref:

I hope this explanation has helped and indeed welcome any further.

Questions you may have.



This is how far I have gotten but I am not finished, although, it only took him three e-mails to become RICHARD.

A few more and they would be signed Richie or Dicky..

Comment #12

Makes me think .asia may be worth something one day. If pool is.

Going through all the trouble to basically steal names it may be.

Because they see great potential down the road.

Dispicable if that's the case though!..

Comment #13

Actually, I have dotasia in my gunsights also, as I sent this off to them. Just to let them know the matter is not over but...just beginning.

Comment #14

Can I clarify just for simple people like me.

These names were obtained in the Sunrise period which was exclusively for TM holders.

If there was only one genuine applicant, the HostGator would be granted.

If there were multiple applicants (with genuine TM credentials), it goes to auction between those competing TM holders.

But the 'complot' is that some of these names, despite having multiple applicants did not go to auction but were granted to a company with shared ownership with Pool.

Is that the crux of the claim?.

So, damagedgoods, are you stating you had TM credentials for, applied, realised that there would be/were multiple applications, waited for the auction but it never happened? You had a genuine TM claim for

If so then it's an absolute disgrace.

If not, and Drake Ventures were the only genuine applicant then it's still questionable how Drake Ventures managed to have so many varied TM claims but then again, even if they manufactured these TM's in advance deliberately, then IMO that's clever forward thinking.

There seems to be another claim involving the auctions but I don't quite understand the accusation.....

Comment #15

Ok, my first question for the original poster is what evidense exists to suggest that Pool is a partner of Drake Ventures? Is it because they are listed as Admin's on the whois?..

Comment #16

Drake, Throne et al does not count for much in the way of a conspiratorial effort and, Schreier gives a credible (and well-crafted) narrative accounting of the process; however, the fact that quite a few were never notified of an auction...added with the number of primary domains ending up in the hands of the company controlled by the auctioneer, certainly give rise to some level of a complicity theory, insamuch as the odds would be almost incalculable.


Comment #17

Im still confused how your coming to this conclusion? Is there evidence beyond whois info?..

Comment #18


What I can't understand is that why Drakes Ventures hold so many TM for those premium domains?.

Do they run porn business to claim TM for

Do they run gambling business to claim TM for,

Do they have many pussies to claim TM for OR is it due to the director being a female who has a pussy/cat?.

They got around at least 50 -100 such domains. I dont think they hold TM for all those 50-100 domains.

I could not get this.

I think indpendent lawyer/investigator should look into this and if the company cheated, then should release all domains without any exceptions...

Comment #19

Now this is very interesting...

I did an ASIC search on the company "Throne Ventures" here in Australia. It has one sole director by the name of Mark Tucker.

It turns out that Mark Tucker is a the only Australian director of Google Australia of all companies! Also he has been reported on previously for having dubious business practices...,00.html,00.html.

Interesting eh...?.

And for you, Spade, the connection is as follows:.

Drake Ventures is owned by Drake Domains Corporation, a company in Barbados (which interestingly is the same country which the above newspaper artcicle links Mark Tucker to).

Drake Domains Corp was owned by Richard Shreier, CEO of Pool (although this is only going by WHOIS data - I suspect it's harder to get reliable hsitorical company information out of the Bahamas than Ireland or Australia)

Also, as an aside, the sole director of Drake Ventures is apparently employed by Pool's parent company...

So there's no question there's a connection and a strong one. The question is whether that connection was used unfairly...

Comment #20

I am not attaching anything of an evidentiary value to Drake, Throne, etc..

Just trying to determne how the auctioneer ends up with a number of premium names that did not appear in auction and with no other bidders.

I think you can readily agree that anyone acquiring 47 premium HostGator names (and perhaps, more) with this method certainly leads fair-minded people to reason out some impropriety.

The one fact that can be substantiated is that this was not some outsider doing this without inside assitance, as that would be largely impossible to effect.


The auction matter is that:.

There are quite a few of us who applied for names that were being sent to auction due to the multiple application rule.

We were never notified of the auction.

Cannot find the domains listed in any auction.

And the auctioneer now has them.


Comment #21

I registered a few .ASIA domains back in october / november, long before sunrise and all the other craphases along with business credentials in Asia, yet somehow these bastards ended up getting the names...

Comment #22

Well, I ended up with 60 .asia domains and some are not too bad on the Asia button.

These were all regged AFTER .asia opened to the general public March 26th.

So. most people probably think I don't have a dog in this fight because my looking into this matter only involves one .asia domain. right?.

Well, my .asia just happened to be Now, who do you suppose owns that?.


Comment #23


Can you confirm that these applications you made (inc were in the TM Sunrise period?.

You had TM justification for them?.

If 100 people applied for and 99 of them had there applications refused due to inadequate TM claims, leaving Drake Ventures as the only genuine applicant then that is quite correct. The HostGator should never have gone to auction.

The validity of Drake's TM statuses is another matter of course...

Damagedgoods - can you also please confirm that you had a TM claim for

Comment #24

One think to remember when you're looking at sunrise registrations with trademarks is that you just have to have a trademark, there's no need to have operated a business by that name. This part is reminiscent of the .EU sunrise registrations where many entities would register trademarks (and companies for that matter) in order be able to apply for many generic .eu domains.

But I am not a lawyer, so I am not sure about all the details.

The other part that I still don't get is why an area where the majority of population does not speak English, would want an "English" language (ASIA) domain. Considering the Chinese for example have their own TLDs in their own characters that only work from within China. But kudos to those who see something I may be missing - I have unfortunately not yet been to ASIA.


Comment #25

I am US-based and had a silk road strategic partner in Hong Kong who had the claim.

My firm was whatever money was necessary, as it was our intent to take the name out in a public stock offering here in the U.S., more specifically, New York City.

Direct Public Offerings is what we do. Have never had ANY involvement with domains before other than ones I bought for my own operations in Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Miami, Phoenix etc.

We were never notifed of any application, auction or auction results on

And that was the ONLY one applied for before the opening to the general public.

All other domains came in the general grab bag approach starting on March 26TH.


Comment #26

If - and I say IF - Mr. Schreier was involved in illegal, sham, and scam, processes via related party transactions that resulted in him having a beneficial interest in an improbable number of the most valuable keywords going around (for minimal cost), I doubt very much if the process he used would survive a proper forensic examination of the electronic trail......It would not be hard to expose.

If this happened, then people that try this kind of thing count on the fact that noone will take the time, trouble, and expense to track it down - and prove it....Then mount legal action in the courts to reverse it....They count on inertia - and most times they get away with it.

(As a side-note....its interesting that, in his correspondence with Doc, Mr Schreier says that neither he, nor, have any ownership, or vested interests, in Drake Ventures....Yet - in the very same letter - he goes on to display an awful lot of knowledge about exactly what Drake Ventures did - or did not do - in this whole process.....Very curious).

Scam artists aren't concerned with reputation, or ethics - only outcomes, and getting away with it. They don't care what you or I think of them.

If I thought that someone had 'stolen' a true premium name that I wanted - via unfair practices - I would go after them with forensic evidence - ALL the way (some of you know this from the recent Sedo mess).

Perhaps someone here will do this? Then we would ultimately know what really happened.


Comment #27

If on a premium HostGator roundup, wouldn't they have also taken,,, and others which seem to be missing from their list..

Comment #28

Isn't the HostGator business the real world? It is not like we are doing this with monopoly money...

Comment #29

I have no dog in this fight, and personally could care less about .ASIA, however I would like to see more evidence backing these allegations.

I have dealt with Richard Schreier several times in the past and never had any problems with him. He is a rare CEO who will actually address any problems. From my dealings he seems like a decent guy.

I haven't read through the entire thread but from what I have seen there are definitely some points here that need to be explained.


Comment #30

Don't think we can make a supposition by exclusion. Just because they didn't take ALL of them pales in comparison as a metric to measure non-complicity because the sheer number that and the Australian Google guy ended up with are just astronomical.

Think this may be a matter for ICAHNN (if I have their initials correct)..

I understand that they get involved in dispute resolution. If they will not get involved in this, then they would be turning a blind eye and share in the ex post facto complicity.

I am going to drop this in the lap of ICAHNN and stay on them until they look into this entire matter. If they fail to act resposibly, they can be next up under the microscope.


Comment #31

Same question here. Why would anyone from US or Europe buy a .Asia when they are not even living or working in Asia...

Comment #32

It is ICANN - often spelled around here as ICANN'T and for very good reason. The corruption of the .EU landrush was discussed on this board, you might want to use the search box at the top right of this page to read up in that. Someone mentioned the .travel landrush that was also a corrupt mess.

The most damning issue, and the only one which I followed closely because I had several domains involved, is Registerfly. This registrar took peoples money and did not renew their domains, and they sold customers' domains and kept the money for themselves, for something like a year. There were thousands of complaints to ICANN. The total I understand is about 250,000 domains that were totally lost to their owners, without any restitution. After months of dithering, ICANN finally got the remaining domains transfered to Godaddy, but is STILL in business selling domains. Again, search Namepros for details.

ICANN is nearly hopeless, they give Verisign and the other registrys whatever price raises and monopoly powers they ask for. The non-US based people here hate that ICANN is still controlled by the US government. - But the central question in my mind is: wouldn't corporate or UN control be even worse?..

Comment #33

Now I know it is ICANN and making it a US-based firm is better because I can really take them to task over the airwaves, if they will not act upon this matter.

I don't know Rich Schreier at all. Never even heard of him until 10 days ago..

May be a personable " hands-on " CEO who gardens, goes to church and helps the needy;however, no one ended up with all these domains without some degree of subterfuge and internal cooperation.

This is not a matter of his character or reputation. This is matter that defies credibility.

I will glady let this matter go, if somone can supply me with how this was accomplshed under the process that was supposedly in place and also render an answer to the preposterous odds of it happening without internal collusion.



Bought .asia domians to sell to US businesses wanting to do business in ASIA.


Comment #34

I have seen your domains and your expections for prices are more than the values of it's counterparts with .com extension...

Comment #35


Yes, these figiures are high in relation to what I have seen.

I am not in the HostGator business, unless one counts the last 8 weeks. And I will not be in it after the Paris auction.

I only bought domains that I saw as having value to end users. The .com prices have never even entered my mind as any type of barometer for the .asia domians I have.

I set the value in my mnd and now it is up to me to get it.

Perhaps, being ignorant of this whole process and domain-marketing is a good thing.

I am treating .asia domains like commodities of value wherein I set the price and deliver a pro forma financial projection to the buyer on the method and time frame to recapture their acquisition costs. Perhaps, including a Direct Public Stock Offering for the firm to extract their return rather quickly.

My methodology has absolutely nothing to do with the relevant prices of domains. It has to do with laying out a plan to a company, replete wih financials, recapture tme frames, a possible exit strategy and a mechanism to raise significant equity without recurring debt, to supply the money to brand the domain.

Any HostGator is brandable with enough money. Give me 2MM I will quickly brand and having everyone in New York humming the jingle.

We have just such a plan underway right now with a domain. Everyone knows that sold for $145,000 and ringtones,org just sold for $120,000. Plus there are a gazillion sites pushing ringtones with HostGator names you would never readily recall.

Well, we have a HostGator titled Now, we are aware that it is not the vaunted ringtones,mobi but anyone seeing it would quickly draw that it has something similar to do with ringtones.

So, we will brand this with a non-sensical jingle that will stick in peoples heads. It was thought up by our R&D department, who happens to be 7 years old and in frst grade.

We were thinking of an animated gif walkimg mobile phone when he blurted out: " Ringy, ringy ringytones...I want my ringytones. ".

Done...the branding tagline was born and we are good to go.

Interestingly enough, the next time you hear the word ringtones, see if that silly jingle pops into your head.


P.S. As a matter of fact, try and erase it from your head.

************************************************** *.

Just dashed off an e-mail to ICANN calling for a formal inquiry of this .asia fiasco.

And apprised them that if they bury their head in the sand on this matter, I will have no hesitation in hoisting them upon the pitard of public scrutiny.

Eventually, they will respond. It may be after a piece hits the television air waves but they will respond. I have been down this road many times before.

Will keep everyone posted.


Comment #36

Yup.. here's a sample:. (Offer must exceeed $150,000). (Offer must exceed $150,000). (Offer must exceed $250,000). (Offer must exceed $300,000). (Recommended to be developed as a Search Engine). (Offer must exceed $350,000)..

Comment #37

I think many domainers go through such phase before developing knowledge and skills themselves. When I started domaining about over 1 year ago, I put $10000 for www.money60.comNow I will be happy if I can sell it at xxx range...

Comment #38

If you really want to do something about this .asia conspiracy, it's important to stay focussed. This thread has strayed well off topic.....

Comment #39

At the $350,000 price for Sun Bank, you might as well get sued by the real sun bank...

Comment #40

Read the list of domains below to realize they are all generic, but that gets off topic. Why were auctions opened and closed and the final result is most of the premium generics wound up in the hands of auction company CEO?.

I registered the first day of land rush. Feb 20 2008 as I have posted already. Here was the .asia timeline.

Dot-Asia Timeline:.

October 9, 2007 -January 31, 2008.

Sunrise 1: Government Reserved Names.

October 9, 2007 -October 30, 2008.

Sunrise 2a: Exact Registered Trademarks applied for before March 16, 2004.

November 13, 2007 - January 31, 2008.

Sunrise 2b: Exact Registered Trademarks applied for before December 6, 2006.

Sunrise 2c: Any HostGator name containing a Registered Trademark in the HostGator name.

Sunrise 3: Registered Entity Names (company names, etc.) February 20, 2008 - March 12, 2008.

Landrush Auction.

March 26, 2008.

Go Live - first-come, first-served registrations.

All these domains have something in common; they are all the generic premiums and should of went to auction. I mean a real one! where the auction house isn't the winning bidder on just about every premium generic.










* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Comment #41

No, I made xx per year at least from this...

Comment #42


Yes, this did get off topic and I apologize.


As far as getting sued: SunBank of Georgia abandoned the trademark in 2004 and a Caifornia company has an entirely differnt use as a solar power concern.

And while many people who think these are high and even ridiculous, they are treating them as domains and I have a commodity approach wth added value that we bring to the client.

Don't expect that what we do will work for for everyone...but it works for us.

Best of success to all and I will stop back and let everyone know how matters with ICANN progress.


Comment #43

Domain's ARE NOT commodities. I dunno what the "experts" are smoking. We DON'T want domains to be commodities we want to make them unique, not common...

Comment #44

Did I mention that I was new at this and it shows. Didn't know they were supposed to be kept as unique. Thought they were for extracting as much value as possible.

Unless, we are just supposed to collect them like baseball cards.

A two-legged stool is unique. Worthless but unique.

As matter of fact, I am certain that many can look at what we bought and say they are " uinque ". So, unique that an experienced domainer would never buy them and laugh at us for doing so. And justifiably so.

Because when the normal dictums of domaining are applied we, undoubtedly, look clownish and inexperienced.

And at domaining...guilty as charged.

At business...have 35 years of experience in capitalization, value creation and branding that indicates our business model will succeed.

But we did not come to the .asia market for any other reason than end user names and that is how we wil market them.

I respect what people who traffic in domains do and wish all the absolute best.


P.S. I offer that what we do is not the panacea for eveyone to attempt. Most likely, because while they are experienced in many worthwhile areas, they may not be overly knowledgeable about the rudiments or advanced methods of finance.

But I have had more than a dozen PM's from people in this forum relative to getting their domains to end users. That said...that does not make any of alternative approaches to create value from whatever we want to call these things...

Comment #45

"From my dealings he seems like a decent guy".

Isn't that what people say about some nutcase they capture that lives next door to you?? Too much knowledge can be a bad thing!..

Comment #46

For example, why do I think my is worth 5 figs mininum? Because it is UNIQUE and has VALUE. Now if costa rica had 10 cctlds for itself, what would that do the value? Dilute it.

Brands have value for a reason. Like one coke exec said he rather have all his factories burned down then lose the brand.

Its all about perception. A business can be RUINED with a crappy name, and a crappy HostGator name...

Comment #47

I agree about branding being important but anything can be branded with enough money.

A far as being woth $xx,xxx...I don't agree. I think you left an x off.

It is already branded and has significant value as a a portal to a business as a revenue agent.

So, apparently, .cr is not like all these other coutries where they retain name as their private domain. Or is that just .asia where I came in?.


Comment #48

Pool and .asia don't need to rip anyone off. They will make more than enough money on the greed and herd mentality of some domainers as it is...

Comment #49

That's true. But human beings are greedy naturally and also will be temptative to grab nice domains...

Comment #50

I continue to be amazed at how people draw conclusions from information because the conclusion is convenient to further their cause and does not necessarily reflect the true story or more importantly verifiable facts.

I would suggest everyone read the correspondence that I had privately with MaguirePHD and which he posted here. The key points in that narrative are:.

- the domains in question were awarded in the Sunrise phase (SR2B to be exact).

- as Sunrise applications, their prior rights had to be validated by a third party, in this case Deloitte Touche.

- if only one verified application was received, the single applicant was awarded the HostGator.

Up until this point, neither I nor had any role to play in the HostGator allocation process. This was entirely run by the registry and their verification agents. You might ask how I know this information? It is all available publicly. The whois service will show you that the HostGator was awarded in Sunrise (SR2B) and the Master Auction Schedule will show the domains were never passed to for auction.

If on the other hand multiple applications had been verified, then the registry passed the domains along with the list of applicants to for auction. All participants were told by the registry who the other bidders were and the basis of their prior right claim. Any participant had (and still has) the option to challenge the prior right if they so choose.

Finally, of the auctions in which Drake was a participant, they only won 3 and those were won with bids of $10 (again all this information is publicly available if you simply research the list provided by those making the allegations) where the other bidders did not place competitive bids.

Those are the relevent indisputable facts. I challenge anyone to show that has compromised the auction process in any way or has used our position as agent of the registry to our advantage...

Comment #51

Sounds like the same guy and if nothing else, he gets applause for responding.

Apparently, he does not shy away from being placed under the microscope..

That only portends one of two modes of behavior: Either he is in the clear on this and the future examination of the facts will bear this out or he has a damn the torpedo mentality.

Actually, if it is the second one then I admire his stand.

All that said, at the end of the day somewhere the process may have been compromised and, if not, then it certainly is a flawed system because the statistical probability defies any t-tail testing for validity.

Hopefully, we will have some resolution to this puzzle soon.


Comment #52

Well we really can't argue with that.

Until someone can come up with a clear example of where they had a genuine right to apply to a HostGator via sunrise (ie they had a TM claim verified by Deloitte) but an expected auction never happened, then we must accept that what rasman says is true.

The OP was talking about I think but hasn't profided confirmation of the TM and successful application (note distinction between 'application' and 'allocation').

Few things are still worth commenting on though:.

1) I'm very surprised there weren't more Sunrise application (genuine ones) for some of these names. But of course unless someone can prove otherwsie we must accept this.

2) From rasman's last post it seems that some potantila buyers who had successfully proved their TM claim for sunrise didn't end up bidding. For this quality of names, plus the effort they must have gone to to even apply during sunrise, this amazes me..

3) Interesting that Drake ventures were able to supply TM claim credentials for so many varied domains. Again though if they did (by setting up new companies & applying for TMs in various countries) then they did and that's that. (just wish I'd thought of it myself ).

4) The connection between Pool & Drake. This connection exists unquestionably but in itself does not mean anything. In fact one could argue that someone with a connection & therefore intimate knowledge of the .asia HostGator launch would be more likely to go for domains than the general public. Again there's nothing wrong with that..

5) The changing of whois information by Drake Domains... whilst it smacks of 'covering ones tracks', there's nothing wrong in that. And if they did it to try and limit this argument against them then who can blame them for that.

So whilst those 4 points are all interesting in their own right, they do not constitute proof.

For me, unless other concrete examples emerge, I have changed my opinion somewhat and will believe the Pool guy...

Comment #53

Who the H are you? A snake oil salesman?..

Comment #54

Richard Schreier, CEO of Pool according to his previous posts.....

Comment #55

Oh, so I was correct! TM? Trademark on bet? The reason I don't respond to your posts is because you talk nonesense in circles and seem to have nothing to contribute. Just read the posts again...

Comment #56

I can't comment on why companies register certain names as trademarks but finding them is pretty easy. For example, the Canadian TRadeMark Office returns 60 results when I did a query for trademarks with the word BET and at least one of them is for the word BET on it's own. The TM is held by some company based in Kingston Ontario. BET.COM is trademarked by a Washington company. I also believe that "Black Entertainment Television" also owns (or owned) the TM for BET...

Comment #57

Are you for real? I talk nonesense in circles and have nothing to contribute? I seem to be one of the few who is approaching this matter with a level, impartial point of view.

I think you struggle to comprehend some of my agruments and therefore they seem, to you, to go 'in circles'.

I asked you a very direct Yes or No question. Here it is again, for the record. Now, without 'talking in circles' can you please give us a Yes or a No.

Please someone else tell me I'm making sense.... please !!!..

Comment #58

Wow. is there anything you can do for a reauction maybe ?

Comment #59

MaGuire, you said:.

"The auction matter is that:.

There are quite a few of us who applied for names that were being sent to auction due to the multiple application rule.

We were never notified of the auction.

Cannot find the domains listed in any auction.

And the auctioneer now has them.


And I offered you the following facts which you still chose to ignore:.

- you were not notified of an auction because no auction was held.

- the domains were awarded in the Sunrise period where your application did not qualify.

- you can't find the domains listed in any auction because they did not got to auction.

And finally,.

- does not own and is not the registrant of these domains, the "auctioneer" does not have them..

Comment #60

I will reply to you directly with more detail of my position to the email that you provided tomorrow. Since you made this post, however, could you state for the record, since you mentioned Black Entertainment Network, as I had also in a previous post, did they secure that name? If so, was it within these timelines? More importantly, would you state for the record, that you don't have any ownership or interest in or any other name on this List?.

Dot-Asia Timeline:.

October 9, 2007 -January 31, 2008.

Sunrise 1: Government Reserved Names.

October 9, 2007 -October 30, 2008.

Sunrise 2a: Exact Registered Trademarks applied for before March 16, 2004.

November 13, 2007 - January 31, 2008.

Sunrise 2b: Exact Registered Trademarks applied for before December 6, 2006.

Sunrise 2c: Any HostGator name containing a Registered Trademark in the HostGator name.

Sunrise 3: Registered Entity Names (company names, etc.) February 20, 2008 - March 12, 2008 I registered february 20 2008 when did BET reg it? Who won the auction that I wasn't invited to?.

Landrush Auction.

March 26, 2008.

Go Live - first-come, first-served registrations..

Comment #61

For the record, I do not have any ownership or interest in or any other name on the list you posted. I have stated such previsouly and will continue to defend this position.

And as far as the "Black Entertainment Network" is concerned, I know nothing about them, I merely was demonstrating that with a simple public query it was very easy to find a TM holder for "BET", and that was only in Canada. So it is not surprising that DotAsia would receive applications for what many of us might consider "generic" words but are held as TMs by someone.

You also asked:.

"February 20, 2008 - March 12, 2008 I registered february 20 2008 when did BET reg it? Who won the auction that I wasn't invited to?.

Landrush Auction".

There was no auction. The public whois service ( provided by DotAsia indicates that was registered 31-Mar-2008 19:00:34 UTC and it was registered in Sunrise (SR2B) based on a trademark registered in 2005...

Comment #62


Sunrise 2a: Exact Registered Trademarks applied for before March 16, 2004.

The partner that I had in Hong Kong fell under this category and there was only one category before that which was reserved for the government.

So, are you stating that we were not eligible because the governement took this in the first Sunrise phase. If so, can someone explain to me how is a strategic government name?.

Okay, then who has because I cannot find it in any Who Is directory?.

And if it was taken by the governement and is NOW in the hands of an individual, this may be a bigger matter than I envisioned.

So, someone solve this mystery: Who has


Comment #63

So you are saying that Drake Ventures has a trademark on the word bet?.

Registrant ID rbl107756.

Registrant Name Domain Admin.

Registrant Organization Drake Ventures Limited.

Registrant Address 33 Pearse Street Box 108.

Registrant Address2 .

Registrant Address3 .

Registrant City Dublin.

Registrant State/Province ..

Registrant Postal Code 2.

Registrant Country/Economy IE.

Registrant Phone +353.16571930.

Registrant Phone Ext. .

Registrant FAX .

Registrant FAX Ext. .

Registrant E-mail .

Registration Agent.

Registration Agent ID .

Registration Agent Name .

Registration Agent Organization .

Registration Agent Address .

Registration Agent Address2 .

Registration Agent Address3 .

Registration Agent City .

Registration Agent State/Province .

Registration Agent Postal Code .

Registration Agent Country/Economy .

Registration Agent Phone .

Registration Agent Phone Ext. .

Registration Agent FAX .

Registration Agent FAX Ext. .

Registration Agent E-mail .


CED ID rbl109044.

CED CC Locality AU.

CED State/Province .

CED City Melbourne.

CED Type of Legal Entity Corporations or Companies.

CED Type (Other) .

CED Form of Identification Certificate of Incorporation or equivalent business registration certificate.

CED Form of ID (Other) .

CED Identification Number ACN # 38 125 737 146..

Comment #64

You guys are forgetting that this is the HostGator industry. We already know that a vast majority of the companies involved are completely unethical and corrupt... So when we hear some crazy claim about underhanded practices and some CEO jumps forward fending off allegations like beasts with a sword... Usually we just assume the allegations are correct. I mean, history would serve us well to go with that choice at least...

Comment #65

Brand new to this game but from what I have been sent and what I have read, it appears as if this nonsense occurs quite regularly.

I am just trying to get an answer to who owns


Comment #66

Totally ridiculous that a company could register a trademark for a generic term and because of that get preferred treatment for a very valuable domain. Generic terms are generic - does not matter if 60 companies trademark them, the "rights" of that term are in the Public HostGator forever.

The elephant in the room is how did Drake get all those extremely valuable HostGator names. And do not tell me that they have a TM and nobody else who had a valid TM applied. They do not control those generic terms and if they do have TMs then maybe the TMs were registered to game the system. may or may not have anything to do with this. But it looks like a near zero chance that all those valuable domains were obtained by the same company ethically...

Comment #67

You posted the answer to your question already in this forum, was applied for during the Pioneer Program by before the Sunrise period started... I suggest you go back to your original post and read it again. Domains in the Pioneer Program were awarded based on public voting. The DotAsia site has a full history of all the domains that were awarded in this way. I suspect the whois information does not currently show as the registrant because the final Pioneer Program paperwork is not complete yet.

"So you are saying that Drake Ventures has a trademark on the word bet?".

Correct, and this information is publicly available through the DotAsia whois service and was verified by the DotAsia verification agent Deloitte Touche...

Comment #68

I believe is reserved by the government pending an approval for Pool's application for the Pioneers Program. From what I gathered, this basically gives every company involved in the DotAsia launch process guaranteed ownership of their business names in the extension without contention... Though it's apparently some type of application process, which doesn't make any sense at all. There aren't a lot of factors to consider. You either give special domains to your partners or you don't... Not sure how running that through an application process and an independent reviewer would change the fact that there was only one possible conclusion for those applications.

So essentially, was never in the pool, so to speak...

Comment #69

So I can trademark the 100 most valuable HostGator names and thereby have priority rights to them? Totally Ridiculous.

But that probably was not Pool's decision. Registrys often keep a few choice domains for their own use, allowing that privilege for does not seem too far out of line, IMHO...

Comment #70

You posted the answer to your question already in this forum, was applied for during the Pioneer Program by before the Sunrise period started.

No, I did not post that at all.

I had no idea when filed for and your post is the first tme I was made aware of that.

So, now this valdation process becomes more important because I need to find out why any application except's was rejected.

That is my one concern.

Tell you what I will do Rich. since you know the head guys at DotAsia, tell them all this needs to be cleared up just to keep the industry image clean..

I'll pay my own way over and they can let me look over their flles.

As far as the Drake deal, I don't care what anyone states here about the phases, the applications, the trademarks or the process to know that this stinks like the bathroom door on a tuna boat at low tide.

And ICANN needs to review this and if they won't, then CANN needs to be put in the spotlight as to why.


P.S. As was stated above by accentnepal, to which I agree, setting aside for the auctioneer that is assisting DotAsia is not a stretch as far as a quid pro quo. But that is not what I am being told.

I am hearing that there was a process in place and that went through it. Since we were excluded then I need to know why and need to see on what basis...

Comment #71

Nothing new..

Did you miss the .eu landgrab ?

There has been a lot similar TM abuse when .info was launched. But it was a long time ago and domainers have forgotten..

Comment #72

Yes, I saw BET in Canada TM database with trademark app for "" which is as close to having a trademark for this generic word as you can get. You can TM "Best Bet in town" or "you bet your life" but I doubt that anyone would be awarded the singular "bet" as a trademark. Regardless, Black Entertainment Network doesn't appear to have secured and I can't find any TM apps for Drake Ventures or Throne as TM holders. Could you point me to the TM database which would confirm this? From what country is the TM?..

Comment #73

Yep, agreed. Drake Ventures is extremely suspicious in all of this. Can anyone verify their TM rights?? How can they possibly own 'legitimate' TMs for all of those generics?? Just not possible unless they were in bed with DotAsia...

Comment #74

ICANN can offer technical help. But they don't dictate administrative policies.

For ccTLDs unless agreed upon with the Registry of that extension. This generic-terms-are-generic thing has been beaten to death various times..

But given that some people seem unable to grasp or probably accept, then I'll.

Rehash some of the original points made.

First, any word can be used as a trademark. Any word, even so-called generic.


Don't believe me? Here are some examples.

Shell is generic for the mollusk. But is it generic for oil products?.

Tide is generic for the waves. But is it generic for detergent?.

Caterpillar is generic for the larva. But is it generic for construction gear?.

Still don't believe even so-called generic single words can't be trademarks? Go.

To and search for them.

If anything, generic words cannot be trademarks for their generic definitions..

Shell can't be a trademark to sell sea shells, or tide to maybe advertise wave-.

Creating equipment, or caterpillar to sell caterpillars.

However, trademark law allows one to use a generic word that's distinctively.

Different from what people know them to descriptively be. Look up suggestive.

And arbitrary trademarks to give you some ideas how they're classified.

I make this post because I've seen a few arguing that a company can't have.

A trademark for a generic word. Well, what's the definition of a trademark? So if the word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of any of them, is.

Able to identify and distinguish the source of the goods of one party from a.

Bunch of others, then it's a trademark. Don't Shell, Tide, Caterpillar, or even.

Maybe bet identify and distinguish the source of the goods (or services as in.

A service mark) of one from others as evidenced by their registrations?.

Ideally, a trademark (well, Federal) registration, as John Berryhill explained in a.

Different thread before, is prima facie proof that the mark had then acquired.

Distinctiveness. If you disagree on any of them, then feel free to dispute any.

Of those registrations using any of their respective processes.

So...enough with this nonsense about generic or descriptive words cannot be.

Trademarks. Any of you may continue to argue such incredible bullcrap of such.

Words cannot be trademarks no matter what, but some laws and a couple of.

Undisputed facts show they can be under limited circumstances. Indeed. Lots of people made noises about alleged TM abuse, but...errr...what.


If anything, perhaps there ought to have been more and arguably more strict.

Screening requirements for (supposed) TM holders. But whether there ought to.

Be more of that or not is up to the powers that be.

Then again, I've noticed it's conveniently easier to believe there's corruption.

And widespread conspiracy, even if it's not necessarily true. Hard to say if it's.

True or not, but anyone accusing anybody of such had better come up with a.

Bit more substantial stuff if you want to be taken seriously.

(Personally, it's a good thing I didn't participate in the Sunrise period and all. I.

Figured it wouldn't be worth my time and money.)..

Comment #75


Yes, I spent hundreds of dollars registering "popular" and unpopular names and didn't get an auction notice whatsoever.

I ended up with a few hundred dollars credit.


Comment #76

Great examples Dave! No argument here.

In all fairness, I should point out that tide and shell are very old TM's, and that the rules have changed quite a bit since then. Now that I think about it; I believe some of those companies made some of the rules back in the day.

TM these days are tougher to obtain, and very complicated. e.g. global issues. I would still like to know what TM right drake ventures had in as I can't find it?..

Comment #77

One big pie - too many fingers.

Did anybody expect a free and fair allocation of names Particularly after recent debacles.

Forunately with this "new" extension it is a complete waste of time with all Asian countries having their own exclusive tld which they most definitely prefer after .com- don't waste your money. You think the .mobi drops are a lot currently- just wait another year when these come up for renewal- it will be a deluge of dumping - by that time the fingers in the pie will have enjoyed a massive upsurge in their bank balances. JMO..

Comment #78

Thanks for the post.

ICANN can offer technical help. But they don't dictate administrative policies.

For ccTLDs unless agreed upon with the Registry of that extension.

Agreed. But enough pressure bought upon ICANN wil make them look this over and demand answers.

I have been down this road many times befiore with large coprorations and governement entities and I always get them to respond because I am relentless with the pressure and I will take it to the airwaves from my studio.

A complaint whether in a phone call, a letter or an e-mail is one thing. A video complaint broadcast across the breadth of the Internet and cable networks will get anyone to eventually respond.

The media loves the story where the big boys are being taken to school, especially, if there may be some behind the scenes facts.

If DotAsia et al have done nothing wrong, they should only be too glad to disclose all.


Comment #79

Dotasia and pool certainly did tricks for the drake farms LTD. For me, I can easily open a company in 2 days here in UK and I can apply for those premium if I knew the directors of those companies.

As I said,, and a thousand others are not trademarks of drake farms ltd, IMO...

Comment #80

Dave Zan you are echoing my point. That is what I mean when I say "Generic terms are generic" - you cannot control the term. Yes, certainly, you can control a generic term in a unconventional use - Apple Computers, for example. But to give that company exclusive right to apple.something on the basis of that trademark is misunderstanding what trademarks are and giving power where it is not warranted. To give that company control of AppleComputers.something would be appropriate.

BET as a television network would be another example of a reasonable trademark. But that trademark would have no effect on the word as used in gambling or by the Boston Escalator Tapdancers.

The simple fact that there are 60 TMs for the same word shows this. None of them trump it's original generic use. Nor should they give control of a generic domain...

Comment #81

Is that what DotAsia did? Last I checked, they gave that registration to who.

Meets their requirements promptly...

Comment #82

Agreed with Reece. I find what he did very shameful, greed never pays off..

Comment #83

Well apparently it does pay off as long as you're in a position to take advantage of things...

Comment #84

IMHO, It's like having wolves guard the chicken coop...

Comment #85

Yes, but ironically they all have Avian Flu anyway...

Comment #86

Some people are a kind of greedy to suck others to make themselves richer and richer to the level of internet tycoons like ebay owner etc...

They are suckers including this CEO of pool and Drake Farms LTD...

Comment #87

Why does it matter looks like you took all the good names anyway..

Comment #88

It does matter because they got the names I have applied...

Comment #89

This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.


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