I'm stumped. I'm not so sure what is the answer to your question. I'll do some Googling and get back to you if I bump into an anything. You should email the people at Nutrisystem as they probably know..
I experienced slow downs when I was lifting weights. now I am just doing cardio (Couch to 5k) and light dumbells for wrist strength. My les are like rocks now...
Yep, normally I'd been posting around a 4 to 5lb weight loss....this week I really started a weight lifting routine along with my cardio. Basically doing an hour and a half workout 3 times a week. So....i didn't see as much of a weight loss this week....I know the muscles are retaining a little extra water...and all that. So..here's hoping the measurements pick up..
Oh yea, I'm not worried atoo much about it. I rather be all muscle 292 lbs instead of 292 lbs of 50 muscle/50 fat..
They asked me what my goal was and I said to look good..
He goes what weight you want to be at?.
I said " I can be any weight as long as I'm muscle and toned instead of fat rolls.".
He started laughing at that...
I'd like to challenge part of that statement, Madisonjust in the interest of discussion (hey, your money-your plan-your decisions!.
So two competing views exist in some ways..
One says, be thin and then build muscle. The other says, build muscle as a way to become thinner..
Is there really any difference and does anyone really know which is best? Nobody can know for sure which is best but I'd be willing to bet there is a difference!.
Let's say I weight 300 lbs and am flabby with a big beer gut. I could either try to drop 100 lbsrecognizing I'm going to lose TISSUE (including muscle), OR, I could try to lift weights and build muscle as part of my weight loss plan..
We'll call the first one "Thin first" and the 2nd one "Muscle First"..
Are they both equally legit as approaches?.
That is really the question. Most guys, and particularly those of us with testosterone, will say that "muscle first" would seem to be the best..
My reason for commenting today is to suggest some reasons that may be wrong..
I have two observations about the "muscle first" approach, specifically among those with 100 lbs or more to lose!!!..
First, weight will fall more slowlywhich can be a big obstacle unless you get your mind right. Basically, it's probably easier for most men to stick with Nutrisystem while they see themselves losing 40, then 60, then 80 lbswhich is pretty easy to see and measure..
Conversely losing 20 lbs while adding muscle may still decrease pants size, for many it could be depressing to see such little weight fall over considerable time..
Secondly, the body has to maintain MASS. The heart pumps (overworked) whether is supplying blood to 300 lbs of muscle or 300 lbs of fat. The heart can't tellit just does. The resulting high blood pressure, etc., brings with it all the risks of vascular events (bad things) and all the other associated issueswhile the person is STILL the better part of 300 lbs...just more toned or muscled..
In short, your overall health will PROBABLY (not always) be better, fasterif you drop all the weight and then begin working to rebuild muscle..
I realize this is not a popular theory and that most guys hate this concept. It's a guy thing.
End of the day, everyone who pays gets to make their own choices. Just sharing here, in part to have a discussion, that when we're significantly overweight that attempting the "muscle first" approach would seem more likely to fail in the long runat least related to overall weight loss..
Look at it this way. ANYONE can build muscle. It's actually relatively easy to do. Wouldn't it be easier to take away all the excuses for maintaining excess weight ("hey dude, I'm lifting weights! I need the extra food!") and lose the weight...then work out with weights?.
I'm sure "muscle first" has worked for somebut I'll bet it's the minority of success stories here! Those guys on this forum dropping from 400lbs to 180 lbs didn't start by lifting heavy weights 4-5x week. They dropped hundreds of lbs first through behavioral changes, then they pursued fitness..
My attempt at food for thought. Losing 50 lbs is hard. Gaining an inch on your biceps is the work of 3 weeks with dumbells and a curl bar..
Finally, for our bodies under stress300 lbs is 300 lbs. If you were a sculpted greek god at 300 lbs your body would still be stressed at that weight..
PS. Seriously Madison, not trying to bust your chops or anyone here. I really think this is a great discussion to have and many people adhere to each of the overall theories! Perhaps others know and can show that what I've shared here is completely wrong! I think this is something us guys should discuss because it comes up quite often..
Thanks for the post!..
I understand what you're saying J, but the problem is (according to some of the health mags I read) that you can't gain muscle when you're at a negative calorie balance. If you're eating 1500-1600 cal/day and that is below what you need to retain your current weight, then you're body isn't going to use any of those calories to build muscle. The only thing weight workouts do, is provide another means of exercise and help you retain some of that strength and muscle that your body would otherwise burn since it is at a defecit..
Yeah, you'll retain some water, but your body will continue to burn calories..
Besides, circuit training is a weight and cardio workout. That way you can have your cake and eat it too!..
Ummm, it's not so much with the weight lifting to build muscle, but to tone and keep from losing it. When you're using it like that, you're going to burn calories and it's still going to have to repair the damage done from the weight lifting. Thats what you are doing...breaking the muscle a bit and repairing it. Its basically to tone, not to build. I have no desire to bulk up the muscle at this point, but toning them, making them healthier as well is better..
The idea is to ensure that your body is burning the fat, and not the muscle, the light weight lifting helps with that...
For me it's pretty much 50/50 as far as calorie burn goes. Half of the burn comes from the cardio, and half of it comes from the light weight lifting...
I've worked it both ways. It is tough to add muscle while losing, but you can, or at lease I could (with adding protein to The Plan). After the first couple weeks of muscle swelling, the loss picks up again..
Conversely, I do agree with the statement that mass is mass and unless you're a blacksmith or just wanna "wow" the ladies (actually, you're really only wowing yourself in the mirror is most likely), the extra muscle mass is just that - extra mass to carry. Yeah, it looks good, but that's about it, which may be enough for ya. It was for me. I stopped lifting to focus on running for a while, going for the greyhound look over the Arnold look, LOL. Was kinda a bust- I still hate running. Be advised also that building muscle is NOT the same as fitness.
One fun thing - If you stop your muscle-building routines, you'll see a quick drop in weight!.
All this being said, I still like to focus on lifting in the spring so I can look studly for summer beach-wear season. Like has also been said, it is fairly easy to build muscle using a good lifting routine. All I need is some speedos and gold chain..
Look. If you are in negative caloric balance, your body is going to burn "you" in order to get the energy it needs to do it's business. Since we store energy in our fat, we loose fat. We also store energy in our muscles, and will burn that as well to get at the protein we require..
Weight training will not build muscle in the negative caloric environment, but it will help maintain muscle mass and strength while you are losing. You are perhaps losing mass more slowly, but my bet is that the conditioning you and your heart are getting is more than offsetting this slower loss..
This is an easy question for me...and if you watch the "Biggest Loser" show, it is the approach that they use as well...
Guys, anyone who argues that going from 300 lbs to 200 lbs (1/3 of body mass loss) isn't going to lose significant muscle is kidding themselves..
Sure there are some who can do it to a degreeby working out 3 hours per day 7 days per week with a nutritionist preparing their food. But for us regular shlups it ain't gonna go that way..
You drop 100lbs and even with cardio/circuit lifting you're going to lose muscle..
Doesn't mean you shouldn't do the cardio liftingdoing that is a GREAT idea for nearly everyone..
The problem comes when we tell ourselves things that are not scientifically accurate. Ala: "I'm going to lift weights and won't lose muscle tissue while I'm on this 1800 calorie intake program".....well, if you lose weight the fact is the muscle is going to go too..
You can preserve.
Of it and tone what's there to a remarkable degreebut there will be loss with the weight changes we're talking about!.
The question for me is "where is the biggest HEALTH gain" for most guys?.
Would it be better to drop 100 lbs or lightly tone a few muscle groups?.
Ideally both would be good. But if you have to choose, losing the 100lbs is far and away better for you than messing around with some bench presses and arm curls 3x per week and telling yourself you're working out or that you somehow require more calories so you can "retain muscle"..
I'd argue, if you have 100 lbs or more to lose. You'll be healthier QUICKER from the weight loss..
After you've lost a bunch of weightturn into Sean if you have the stones for it!.
PS. Last I checked (admittedly some years back), an hour or so of cardio lifting on a weight training circuit was not "extreme" exertion. It was moderate exercisemeaning most of us trying to lose weight wouldn't have to do much adjusting of diet. Like jogging on a treadmill 1/2 hour every nightnot.
Level of working out..
What worries me on this topic is there is so much misunderstanding out there that guys who really need to lose will feel like their new exercising requires more caloriesand when they increase calories unnecessarily, their weight loss will stall or stop and they will quit Nutrisystem altogether...
First, unless you are really working out with intensity, you should not add calories...and only then with the advice and consent of your counselor..
Second, I am not sure where you get your calorie burn numbers from...but come work out with me..
Third, I challenge you to find some kind of real data that says that your "weight first" method is healthier. If you walk for exercise and use the program, you will lose weight. No doubt. But it will be at the expense of more lean body mass than if you lift...
Studies have shown that a dual approach of cardio exercise along with some form of weight training work best for weight loss...
Haven't really increased my calories due to the workout so no concerns there. I've been drinking a lot more water and added 2 table spoons of Peanut butter for a sweet/protein snack after dinner. I do expect to loose muscle mass as I get to 220 lbs, but by working out I hope to reduce the muscle lost..
I'm not doing a extreme workout as I used to do that in High School. That's how I got big, as I dropped the workout and kept the diet. Not a good combination! LOL.
Also by working out I retain most of my muscle mass and loose fat as time goes on, and with the retained Muscle Mass my BMR will stay high and might even increase, therefore increase my body's rate of energy burning. Also the scale at the gym has a BMI measurement and according to it I dropped 2 lbs and 2% of body fat since I started last week so if I lost 7 lbs of fat but only lost 2 lbs total, then that means I gained 5 lbs of muscle in the past week (Although it could be the extra water I've been drinking) and that's a better achivement then losing 7 lbs in my mind. This is by doing 20 mins of cardio and a 40 mins weight lifting set. I'm doing 3 sets of 10 at the max weight I can complete a set with. Funny though cause the trainer set the leg press at 100 lbs and goes give that a try "you might not be able to finish it" is his exact words. I set it at 200 lbs and finished all 3 sets and strained a little on the last 3 of the 3rd set.
As I said, I want to achive a weight of 220 as I think that's a ideal weight for me, but I don't want to lose muscle mass as I lose weight at a fast pace. I rather retain the majority of my muscle mass and lose the fat..
As times goes on we will see how it works out and if it shows I need to adjust something then I will, but I'm loosing this fat one way or another..
Like we used to say in College, there's more then one way to solve a problem, some is longer and harder, and some are shorter and easier, Do which ever one is easier for you to do!..
Hey the only muscle I'm using is the one between my ears! LOL..
Ok I'm going to put my .02 into the conversation..
I use a bodybugg to monitor my calorie burn and Monitor my intake with their online program. Over the same course of time, I get a greater calorie burn with aerobic exercise vs anaerobic exercise..
With the bodybugg program the system calculates your lean mass and Fat mass. I started using the BodyBugg on 4/19 at that time I weighed 280# my Lean Mass was calculated at 153.72 # My Fat Mass was calculated at 126.28#.
I have focused mostly on aerobic exercise (doing c25k right now) with some light circuit training mixed in..
Right now at 203.2 my numbers are 142.51# Lean and 60.49 # Fat.
So I have lost some mucle mass but only about 11# but I have lost over 1/2 of my total fat mass. And I have gained muscle strength and speed. Plus with the fat loss my muscles look more toned and you can see some cuts in my biceps and triceps..
You can see how the BodyBugg charts the calorie burn. For my workout I did Week 4 day 2 of C25k and 100 crunches between 10:45am and 11:30am During the run I was burning over 12 cal per min and it went down to about 7 cal per min nuring the crunches..
So my feelings is the aerobic exercise combined with light anerobic excercise had worked for me...
Interesting conversation guys....
I have some data to throw in if it matters......
In 2006 I lost 40lbs in 23wks with lots of exercise and some diet. Lost 6% bf and lost 3lbs of muscle. So 7.5% of my lose was muscle..
Currently I am down 50lbs in 23wks by Nutrisystem alone. I'm down 9% bf but I've lost 8lbs of muscle. 16% of my lose is muscle - twice as much..
Not sure if one method is better than the other, but I really like the fast results I've had with NS. I put on muscle fast for a woman so I'm not real concerned. I'm halfway to my goal and I am going to start increasing workouts (some weights, some cardio) if my knees will let me. I do feel very flabby this go-round like my skin can't keep up with the shrinkage...