Good Luck Buddy, They have alot of well-dressed lawyers that will make your life living hell...
How about providing us with some more detailed information about what happened to you, before soliciting others to tell their stories. We know nothing about your claim except a couple figures you posted...
Ok, officially i'm not allowed to post the practic details of the situation. (This is because of the investigation.).
But I will tell you the following:.
I have used paypal for years, never any problems. Have had a total of 6 accounts during the past years. All went fine. Now, some day we got a problem with a buyer, filed a chargeback, wich we made. After that paypal got suspicious. The 6 accounts we have used (as a business) have all been blocked.
Paypal told to send us information on how to withdraw the money that was still on the accounts, after 180 days. (recognize it? ) No problem, accounts all blocked, but we can live with it. Now at the beginning of this year, we made a new paypal accounts, to start again with paypal, it's very handy to use at a business. Added a creditcard to it, sent copy ID card, utility bill, sent it by fax, and it was received and accepted. At the resolution center, we check weeks and weeks, but never the account gets verified.
Its now almost 8 months later, and the money of the first 6 account is still not withdrawed, nor has there been received any information on how to do it. Also the new account cannot be verified, because of the strange issues..
Now, i'm a patient man, I can wait. But this really has gotten out of hand. We have a good running business, but we can't take care of losses running into 10's of thousands of euro's because we can't use the system correctly or deal with our new and existing clients. I have messaged them over and over again, but always get the same robotic replies. I am not affraid of their lawyers, there are some pretty good lawyers in the Netherlands as well!..
It is going to cost you more than your losses to fight paypal, thousands and thousands..
I wish you luck, but I wouldn't bet on anything...
As far as I am aware, it's against their terms to have more than one account, business or otherwise.
TBH it seems your after a quick buck, we all know that even if you do win (which is about as likely as the world being cloned), PayPal wont change their ways AND they wont close...
You are allowed 2 accounts 1 business and 1 personal (you can't just have 2 personal accounts and say 1 is for business). If you have more it flags in their system apparently...
Your existing accounts were frozen, and so you tried to open up additional accounts and expected them to work?.
That doesn't strike me as a reasonable expectation...
I don't think any lawyer would handle this-it would get dismissed after 3 questions:.
How many accounts?.
Six plus another..
How many did you agree to in the terms of their service?.
What is agreed to as penalty for breaking the terms of the agreement?.
Forfeiture or freezing of funds..
In my thinking you can only win if you can show that they broke the terms of the agreement and I can't see it here.But then again I am not a lawyer-just a buyer of.
Mediocre domains. LoL.
Scratch that-nearly mediocre!..
I personally think ebay/paypal is the devil, but I use them cause I have to. anyhow I don't think you stand a chance in hell of getting anthing from paypal. Paypal have some very unrespectable practices but the thing is, most of you guys who have been "scammed" were scamming paypal in the first place with bogus accounts, to many accounts, fake info, or whatever. As far as the 180 days thing, it will be another cold day in hell before my account gets frozen for 180 days whether I have to fly to california and make a "personal" withdrawal or not, but I don't have to worry about it to much cause I play by their rules..
All I'm saying is it is unless you are willing to spend way more then you lost, go ahead. I would try to resolve it with them kindly, you threaten a big company and nothing positive comes of it...
Best of luck with your campaign, Interested in the comments about only 2 accounts.
If you had more would it give reason for Paypal to block accounts...
I think this a good lesson on why you should not use paypal as a business and why you should instead use a credit card processor. Good luck with suing paypal, doubt you will get to far with your case after looking at the above facts...
I do not think that you have a leg to stand on as you broke their terms and conditions..
Surely some of your good Dutch lawyers told you this !!!!..
The comments are very clear:.
The 6 accounts were no 6 accounts at once. Also the paypal accounts are registred by different company employees...
Obviously you are abusing the system if you needed 7 accounts. Another guy coming here to get sympathy on some crack brained lawsuit. You should sue your parents for being born. That would make more sense to me than suing paypal.
I love the "pressing charges" bit...as if Paypal is some criminal organization which you can get the CEO arrested. lol....really this is about as much of a joke as I have seen here. At least the guy with Amazon domain was just a clueless kid. You actually appear to be running a business of some sort. I am not sure how that's possible.
"...it's very handy to use at a business." Yeah well if you ran a decent legit business you could get your own credit card processor CHEAPER than paypal but I am gonna assume this business you run isn't nearly as legit as you want everyone to believe.
I can picture this scenario...you sell some odd digital goods or service and when someone feels ripped off. They get paypal to do a chargeback. But before the chargeback happens you close accounts and move money just in time. Then you wait and open a new account and start fresh. Am I close?.
I see your sig profithost is a web host site and registered since Nov. Is my above scenario connected to hosting? How many clients have you duped in the past with those 7 paypal accounts?.
Nice choice of username btw...it seems to have a tone to it similar to this thread...
No doubt it's too late to tell you all of the following now, but ONE PayPal account should have worked just fine for your one company. (It's irrelevant if you had a few more employees - they still could have used the same account.).
Also, you should not have used PayPal Plan A - sticking money into an account there that could get frozen. Instead you should have used Plan B, which is PayPal Lite - it merely links your usage of PayPal to your credit card, so it only draws what it needs for individual transactions, while there are never any funds residing at PayPal in case of any freeze, due to a glitch or otherwise.
And, as the others observed, after having all of your accounts cut off by PayPal, rather than resolve that situation first, you instead tried to do an end run around them and open yet ANOTHER account with them?! That's like pouring gasoline on a dead engine block and then wondering why the car still won't start!..
Lol I love people that post they are going to file a lawsuit and they are getting there information for a corporationsucks.com website how ignorant are you..
Sorry for your problems with p/p Profit|Jacob..
I visited your hosting site. I found this at the top: And below: Does this mean your issue has been resolved?..
Probably means he opened yet another PayPal account and is expecting that one not to be closed...
Might be because of the same robotic rule violations...
Basically you have no chance against them. You broke the ToS, end of story...and if I were going to "press charges" (oh that makes me laugh) against anyone I would not join or be associated with a site which could be seen as libelous aka paypalsucks..
People talk about pressing charges all the time here.. whatever happened to this case?..
There is no case, it's completely pathetic and it would jsut get thrown out by a judge, you broke a contractual agreement by breaking the ToS basically..
I haven't read through whole thread yet so sorry if any repetition but I needed to respond to the above quote. paypalsucks.com makes very good points, is not stating anything controversial, and is (at least generally) honest. I can't verify that what they post has happened to them but I can say with 100% certainty that it's happened to MANY people I've spoken to.
Paypal has many problems.
They allow chargebacks and their 'dispute console' is a tool for fraud and/or at very least a means of circumventing Ebay listings (which are supposed to be binding contracts, btw: since Ebay/Paypal are the same company, the reality is made all the more aggravating and legally questionable). For example, a seller can state: if you don't buy insurance, you accept full liability for items lost or damaged in transit. A user can read and agree to this, then just file with paypal and get their money back (+ the item the seller sent)! A seller has to put in a tracking number to even RESPOND TO THE DISPUTE (and even then they don't always end the dispute with that). Consider the fact that small, cheap items are NOT TRACKABLE (at least in Canada & USA). A seller who sells misc. stickers/goods @ $5.00 + $3.50 S/H can't afford to pay the $10.00 minimum for Expedited or Express Mail via Canada Post (cheapest trackable mail, if you can find a method for shipping with tracking to USA from Canada or even Canada to Canada for under $3.00 then private email me...
Furthermore, a seller who states such a clause in their contract has a moral and legal duty to those that did pay for insurance - one cannot charge for insurance, then offer free replacement and reship to those that did not insure. To do so would be a clear case of felony fraud against those that dish out the dollar or so for insurance (esp. after stating that NOT buying insurance equals a specific consequence and/or lack of service).
Paypal dispute console invariably awards the buyer the money. Many buyers believe this money comes out of some type of 'insurance' paypal provides buyers and/or sellers but it comes directly from the seller. BTW: It matters not that the transaction in question is under $10 or that the seller doesn't have a tracking# accessible, the point here is that a tool touted as a means of protection is used to circumvent contracts. Also, before you make the point: I realize no tool is perfect, however why does paypal not intervene when issues of breached contract are brought to their attention?.
Like many large companies, the issue is exacerbated by the fact that paypal is inaccessible. To put it plainly: their helpdesk is manned by either mail-bots or humans with the intelligence of said bots (no offense to anyone but 'tis what 'tis). They don't post their phone number openly, you can find it via a Google Search on various forums, and if you dig deeper you may even find a 1-800 number but this too is a clear case of policy. The fact that they are inaccessible is no accident.
Alas, paypal is massive. I'm not going to jump on the 'beware their bottomless pockets' bandwagon as I hate that so many corps out there get away with murder because of their size (they can afford to keep you in court for years, forget the outcome of any trial, if any, they'll win by keeping you in court for a long time). This case isn't the 'murder' I refer to though. I understand your frustration but paypal has a strong user agreement such that they can justify most anything with it...
That is the most ignorant response to my post I have ever seen. All the reasons you have stated why paypal is bad each and every user has agreed to when they sign up. If you don't like how they do business don't do business with them. I personally do not use them I personally have an actual credit card processor where I can swipe credit cards myself? Why cause I choose them and if I thought they sucked I would choose someone else I wouldn't bother to make a website devoted to try to tear down a multimillion dollar corporation because I know I would just be losing a never ending battle...
Engineer...don't sell to US customers then. Realistically what's the percentage of people that issue a chargeback? 1%-3%??? That's the cost of doing business my friend and needs to be built into your pricing overall. Economics 101. As you state in your example that the seller has a contract with buyer. That's nothing to do with Paypal or even Ebay. Seller can create legal action against Buyer...not the payment processor for breaking the terms of the sale.
I can send items with tracking from Stamps.com software for FREE. If you setup your business according to your surroundings and the TOS of your partners you will have proit. If you think that everyone will change for you then you will have a loss as you quickly find out that's not how it works.
I had a retail place for 10 years. It was alot of headache and problems. There was times I lost THOUSANDS from unfair businesses and practices. You roll with it and move on. Some days you make money...some days you lose it. Consider the overall picture...
Your taking on a multi-billion dollar company.
"Sucks sites" have almost always been upheld by WIPO and courts as a legitimate way to express protest of an organization. They are opinion sites and protected free speech, not libelous...
But I'm not talking about chargebacks!.
Chargebacks are a different story all together.
As for paypal disputes... yes, 1 to 3%, maybe even less most of the time, and yes, a cost of doing business... But why have a tool that is an active means for fraud?.
Simply put - it's not really the tool, but paypals lack of human support. If a seller had a simple means of appeal (i.e. paypal, please read the 2 line contract clause) then this type of nonesense would end. Are you saying a bank is in the clear if it refunds one of my buyers upon their request?.
In the case of the example given, paypal acts as agent for fraud. They provide the tool, they pull the money from the seller account, they reject seller input. An aggravating factor in this case is that they are the ones that insist (over and over and over again) that Ebay listings are binding contracts. You can use that as an answer to almost every annoyance, injustice, abuse, wrongdoing in the world (it's not always economically feasible or wise) but wouldn't a better solution be to fix this tool and make it less likely to be utilized for abuse. BTW: I wasn't encouraging the guy to sue paypal, rather echoing that it's got alot of (easily fixable if they just listened and/or hired higher quantity or higher quality people) issues that could be construed as legally questionable.
I can send items with tracking from Stamps.com software for FREE. If you setup your business according to your surroundings and the TOS of your partners you will have proit. Tell me something I don't know... I know. And let me restate I wasn't encouraging the guy to sue. However, to sit around and accept is both a bad business & moral decision.
Using paypal is more a necessity to anyone doing business on Ebay as Ebay has convinced so many buyers that using anything other than ppal will lead to losing money, identity theft, scurvvy, leprosy, black clouds over their homes, termite infestation & eternal damnation. My colleague used to have a traditional merchant account (ability to run card numbers directly) but it was so underutilized that it became infeasible to keep it open (this, even though he had a shooting-star feedback record (10,000+) and 99.6% +ratio)..
Just like paypal if you don't like the way ebay is run don't use ebay either. If you are going to complain about a company why do business with it. The world ran fine before ebay and paypal don't tell me they are a necessity. I love your ignorance to think you know how to fix multi million dollar companies easiely if they hire the right people. I tend to guess paypal knows more about there business than you do...
Are you joking? I thought the 'love it or leave it' movement died out long ago.
You use the word ignorance too quickly (maybe arrogance, not ignorance... Ignorance implies not knowing, Arrogance implies assuming you know).
Nobody said Ebay needed fixing. It's great and continually getting better precisely because it embodies a strategy 'of community, by community'. Rather that crying 'ignorance' they ENCOURAGE input & continually utilize said input to drive change. The changes you see in Ebay are driven by user response as to what works and what does not, what should be left 'as is' and what should be changed.
This thread is going nowhere fast so let me ask a final question: Are you 100% happy, without reservation and question with every company you work with and/or for?.
I find favour & fault in almost everything (nothing is perfect, some things (and people) less so than others). And as for 'knowing' - I'm of the belief that no matter how much of the behind the scenes I know, see and interact with - that my customer, who may spend 2 minutes checking out, knows more about what they need to be a satisfied return customer. In other words: customer knows best. I'm not saying I am going to do everything my customer wants but if they think we need to pay closer attention in matters of dispute I'd consider it (never just decide they don't know what they are talking about... I don't believe I have to type this!).
I agree it's a dead thread engineer and I have called a truse via pm close the thread..
If you get duped in a Nigerian scam and cash one of their fake Cashier Checks the bank will hold you liable for the funds. The system considers YOU the dupe not the bank. Otherwise people would scam themselves and cash bad checks all day and say it was someone else that gave it to them.
The current paypal system imho is fair. I had numerous attempts at chargebacks and even outright fraud. I remember one time it was for $450 for a Playstation 2 system and games. Since I sent with tracking and full information that Paypal does require to be covered...I was covered. It took only 2 emails to dispute the dispute and about 2-3 weeks for Paypal to decide. However it was to my satisfaction since I followed the paypal seller protection requirements.
Paypal has seller and buyer protection. The key is to know Paypal's limitations and to work within their system. I had many sales that simply didn't look good and I knew paypal doesn't cover for addresses that are not confirmed. So I would skip the sale or ask buyer to send a Postal Money Order.
Fraud detection and prevention are your best weapons.
As for paypals human support. I used it once in all my years. I find it easier to use their online support and just wait. Yeah it can be aggravating and your first response is to get it resolved immediately but that's not how paypal works. Calling them will only get you upset. Give them a long and well detailed email then just wait.
Calling them in a frantic blitz might get you kicked off Paypal and really won't help your case.
Find out from Paypal what you did wrong and how you can prevent the problem from occuring again...
Some of you guys need to chill and stop taking things so personally.
The dispute console is a tool for fraud. deal with it. end of...
So by your reckoning someone who has a genuine grievance with a seller should not try and get there money back otherwise it is fraud?.
Of course there are fraud situations as well but any tool can be used for purposes it was not meant for...
But with that statement it appears you as a "company" where scamming paypal. having 6 employees register 6 different accounts?..
The OP has not posted in this thread since May 11, 06...