Your question was: One.com, Godaddy, Locodomain, or better?.
How do you like my Image-Gallery dot com?.
You think it has the potential to be a premium even with the hyphen??..
As I read your blog on the misunderstood hyphen, I G-L-O-W with pride. If anyone gives you any C-R-A-P about the hyphen, I'll be in your corner...
Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics.
Alexa has come out in recent weeks and admitted it stats are a load of horse shit. Why do these stats sound any more credible?..
I guess it can be a winner if you promote right..
I remember way back in 2002 when I was on board on a collection site for books. I mentioned a taboo that it would be accepted in the future and was flamed like you would not believe. A few years later they said who would have thought?.
My point is you have to have a vision of the future and what makes sense, if it does your usually right.
Check http://whois.domaintools.com/ Not Alexa I think you will. Thanks!..
Hyphens have value just like .net has value. The problem with both of them is you will leak traffic to the .com non-hyphen version...
Very Well Said,.
I never thought of it like that before, .net and hyphen are similar, they will both leak traffic to the non hyphen .com.
Would rep you but I have too recently it says.
That aside, I did go on a bit of a hyphen buying spree early this year! Including buying Hyp-hen.com..
I don't mind a hyphen if it makes sense, but I think neo said it best...
First of all, I posted something here just recently where I was basically saying that Alexa is nothing more than a worthless toy, so in that sense I totally agree with you. There is quite simply no correlation whatsoever between the toy statistics quoted by Alexa and anything showing up in my logs, as explained in my recent post.
I would be interested in getting a link to the Alexa admission that their stats are worthless, since that would be the first signs that there is something meaningful coming out of Alexa (namely an admission that their stats are crap).
Now, along different lines, I think you will also agree that in scripted languages like Arabic that the hyphen can be quite useful in keeping the characters from joining and assisting in readability.
The hyphen also helps in ascii wrt readability, especially in cases where you have the last letter of the first word being the same as the first letter of the second word. For valuable keyword combinations I would suggest buying both, and I have both hyphenated and unhyphenated pairs going back 12 years... and yes that doubles the cost. I believe that it adds value when you explain to a potential buyer that you have already protected them against traffic bleed or confusion with the hyphenated version...
Alexa have not actually said their stats are crap. What they have said is that they intend changing their model so it is not entirely dependent on the Alexa Tool bar, which skews the results heavily towards what American Geeks are looking for (actually they didn't quite put it like that either). Whilst many of may be Geeks, we don't want market surveys that just reflect this narrow spectrum. Alexa is totally worthless for Asia in general and IDN in particular.
My point, however, is not to knock Alexa, but it is to underline the inherent fallibility of many of the statics we rely on. Even Google will often return only a third of the results it generated the previous day. My repost to 100% SEO releveance for hyphenated names, where the hyphen is not breaking up words is B-O-L-L-O-C-K-S. Also have you notice how domainers generally present these in upper case but you have to toggle the shift on and off between characters to do that which make it a real feat of co-ordination.
Here is one version of the Alexa Story. http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.c...dline=s5i34262..
Thanks RD! The Alexa toolbar was just *one* of the problems I had with Alexa. The problem is that it is a major source of sampling error... for example it skews statistics towards the "geeks" that use the toolbar, which introduces a categorical error in sampling. I will definitely take a look at the link.
Another major source of error is that it does not correctly sample dynamic content that backlinks to a site, for example embedded dynamic content on other sites that links back to your own site (as the source of the dynamic content). I guess the problem is that a lot of people cite Alexa stats as if they are somehow meaningful, without really understanding the way they generate their stats, or the possible sampling errors that are introduced by their sampling techniques. As a math geek I am especially sensitive to "bad math", and when I look at Alexa I see bad math in abundance.
Thanks again for the link!..
The thing that always made me laugh was the way they claimed to track everything around the Globe, when they could not even be arsed to translate their site into other languages. How deluded was that!..
Good posts! Keep em coming!.
Good post. However I think that they have MORE value than .NET even though it leaks traffic. Its still traffic and it's a .com.
Traffic is not the main issue here it's about the available names, brandable short nice names. That is the main topic. End users will find their own way to obtain traffic through advertising...
Traffic may not be the main issue in this thread but it will always be the elephant in the room when discussing HostGator investments/values. Domains with no inherent sustainable (type in) traffic will always face pricing pressure from the infinite supply of unregistered names. Targeting "brandable short nice" names is a way to narrow the infinite competition, but the definition and population of "brandable short nice" broadens over time to suit the needs of late arrivals.
Regarding hyphens, I recommend expired two word generic hyphenated dot com names with backlink traffic. They can be found at one year PPC multiples. When backlinks dry up you still have a meaningful name at little or no cost...
I'm not sure whether it's true or not, however, I have heard that domain-names.com (domains of that style) are registered by Google as two words?..
I don't mind hyphens, in fact I rather like them simply because everyone else seems to hate them. There's very little competition and I often catch excellent hyphenated names as they drop. I think many people focus strictly on non-hyphenated dictionary word .coms which leaves a lot of gems for the people who do look through everything...
Hyphens will become totally necessary in the years to come.
I am not talking about traffic or seo but about internet itself; hyphens are the best alternative when you dont have what you want to reg in any other gTLD (.com, .net, .org and .info) and sometimes it can be better than all of them but .com, if the name, for some reason, doesnt fit very well another extension than .com.
Internet penetration is now 21% and it is growing everyday; I dont want to imagine when it is in 40%... imagine the famous supply X demand for names and try to guess what is going to happen and I am not talking just about short names here.
Geo names will show how hyphens will be accepted, a name with hyphen will always have it's value lesser than those without it but the hyphen wont hurt the name severely at all.
In regards to short names (until 5 characters) everybody knows, even who is not a domainer the potential a small name or an acronym has.
We are seeing LLL.com sales and the chepaest ones are going for about $10,000 (sometimes there are bargains); I would like to know how much they will be in 10 years ($xx,xxx or $xxx,xxx for "bad" ones, if there is "bad" ones, who knows?).
So, it is obvious hyphens are here to stay, like it or not.
As I said before, we can like hyphens or not but domaining can be a good way to make money if we predict the moves, accept them and take some risks but sometimes people mix feelings with businesses and then they lose a great chance to make a nice ROI..
Just like we never liked LLL.com's before.
Get them while you can people!.
Have the foresight !!!..
0-0.com.au 3-d.com.au 3d-tv.tv j-o-b.info n-y-c.tv .... I guess I like hyphens !!!..
Get them while you can, but they don't compare to LLL.com at all. The hyphen is a second choice, the LLL.com is not...
Only if you are prepared to jump to absurd conclusions on the basis of very scant evidence.
Yes over the next year or two global internet penetration will double.
However, the proportion of those that access the Internet in Latin characters let alone English will be quite small. It is not like you are going to have another billion Americans coming online. That market is approaching saturation. How relevant are you registrations to the emerging online markets?..
That is a very good point! I prefer to put most of my domaining money on the already established, but speculative money may do very well in emerging markets...
It's a shame that internet/computers/communications in general are all designed mainly for latin characters. the sheer readability alone highly favours latin characters, and coupled with speed and accuracy pretty much blows other formats out of the water...
I don't really like hyphens but I have nothing personal against it. Some hyphenated HostGator names look kind of cool but is it definitely "the way to go"? Hmm...I like to think it's the alternative (2nd) to a non-hyphenated HostGator name...
I like hyphens, you can use them to created images, like keyboard characters in emoticons or smileys. c-oo cj ......
For an end user, I don't think the hyphen matters all that much..
For an online business, they might be a tad more appreciate of the "no hyphen" domains though..
A very well known appraiser told me that hyphenated domains (two worders) with hyphen in the right place (between two words) are around 2% of the non-hyphenated ones at the moment. The gap might or might not decrease, but I agree with him...
If everyone believes that how come my hyphenated domains like not-sure and all the others in my selling thread are not selling..
Because uptil now the hyphenated two worders need to be category killers to be in demand.
Being in demand is one thing and having a perceptible value is another. People might not think they are quick flips or investment grade names!..
Well I am not big in dot CN, but I can tell you if you want to succeed, you should forget about English Keywords. IDN are much more expensive to register. That is because they have value...
IMHO, hyphens are only good for mini sites. They can get great SEO and put your site in the top of the rankings. Other than that hyphens are useless in the reseller market and even in most cases of endusers.
Endusers with even a little bit of common sense will choose a name without a hyphen and market that. It will be money well spent to market a name without leaking traffic such as a hyphen or a .net.
How many people here actually visit a site on a daily basis with a hyphen in it?.
How many people do a search on a daily basis that returns domains with hyphens in them?.
Theres your answer on hyphens, IMHO of course..
Every time you use an example it becomes spam people think everything is spam. I was purely using an example. And if you feel like everything is spam stop watching tv and leave the internet completely because everything is spam..
Because People have been brainwashed. As the amount of premium names diminish the most logical answer will be a short domain. I see hyphens in many ad's everyday and from the biggest companies. Possibly not at this moment but in the future as the net grows it will eventually develop many ideas for any type of name/slogan..
As long as new business, trends, fads, and other things that contribute to culture, premium names will never diminish. Look at the rash of eco domains being registered. 10 years ago a TON of them were not regged. Always oppoutunity for growth and development.
As for ads, can you please direct me to one of them?.
The hyphen itself is just not regularly used to type in HostGator names, nor is it a major key when learning the keyboard. In most keyboarding or computer basics classes it is learned in some the last lesson, if not learned at all. So in all reality it is the common internet user that determines the use and value of a hyphen name...
As for the ads. Look around you look in the paper, magazines.There is only so many premium names to go around and most of them are in the hands of the slackers who just sit around all day doing nothing with their names but brag about what they bought (no offence Rick Latona or Shwartz ).
Also the amounts to buy them are out of the hands of many businesses wanting to start up.
They hyphen names will evolve. But if you dont think so that is your oppinion...
Im not saying that hyphen names are stuck in the mud. What I'm trying to point out is that premium names will never stop coming along. You just have to be 2 steps ahead of everyone else and see the future to hand reg them.
The industry and the world are growing, rapidly. There are billions of names to reg, why would a company or an enduser want a leaky name when they can brand themselves to a much more powerful one?.
As for the ads, I just looked in my local newspaper and found none with the hyphen in them.....
I think it's every persons individual opinion whats better. Here's a small test to see what you would prefer. Keep in mind your an end user in this. Also not all companies are looking only for typein traffic. Not all are online businesses.
1. Think of a really premium two worder..
2. Find out it's value from any appraisal..
3. Calculate 2% of it's value.
4. Find out what optional two worder you can get for this 2% value in the same niche..
5. Now keep this name and the premium names hyphenated version in front of you and decide which one AS A PROSPECTIVE COMPANY (and by the way, not all companies are online business who depend on only type ins) would you prefer to have.
Not taking any sides with this, but it will give you a better perspective in making a decision what you think is better...
I often times look at recent sales histories of names that sold for $1000+ and look for different versions on the name. Often time I find 1 or 2 of the same quality for REG FEE. I reg them and resell them for a good amount.
A company with any common sense will look for a brand or a name that they really want, end user purchase. I have in, personal experience, not found very many companies or end-users have a HostGator with a hyphen...
Why are you on a mission to talk down hyphen domains? Did you miss out on some you wanted?.
Let's move on.....
Im not talking down on them. I actually own some. They are used for development and minisites. Just as I have stated the greatest purpose of them, IMHO, earlier in the thread.
All I am doing is supporting my opinions on hyphens !..
Wha??... Oh LOL! Sure Ok. Can we move on now?..
Not-sure.c does'nt really sound like an ideal name to build on don't you think ? Very true, hyphen domains are more suited to end users or development IMO Not so sure I would totally agree with the - "useless to end users part", end users are going to need alot more than common sense to get a strong two keyword HostGator without a hyphen, bear in mind that hundreds of thousands of them are owned by people who have no interest in selling them, even if they did they would probably be wanting over 100k.
...they're a cheaper option IMO but I would only register very strong ones.
Oh I forgot to mention....some countries apparently don't mind hyphens like Germany.
What I am trying to say is that end-users or companies are more likely to go after the real thing or something similar. Often times, something similar is available to reg or can be had for a cheap price...
I think hyphens do best when they're actually supposed to be there as part of the spelling. I have both kinds (actual spelling, and simply a hyphen between words), and the ones with the hyphen as an actual part of the name do better...
Yeah, there's always other options for endusers and they definitely don't think the same way about domains than most domainers do.
Another example is eco domains, quiet often people put a hyphen after the word eco.
True and that will always play a factor in our world!..
3d-tv.tv ........ I like it and 0-0.com.au , hyphens are coolAs names become more scarce there is room for hyphens , hacks and number , even miss-spellings..
I have noticed on a couple of websites something interesting and that is the name with a hyphen does better on a similar site that has no hyphen and is the exact same spelling...
I have read about a simmilar issue where same names were compared one without hyphens and one with. The hyphen out did the non hypnen in regards to traffic...
So, if you find a 2 word hyphenated .com with high overture score (let's say between 5000-10000) would you register it?.
How much would you pay to another reseller to buy such a HostGator name???..
3-d.com.au , google has some big numbers for 3-d..
How about when you want to hide something in a nasty word like.
Fu-k. com and r-pe. com.
They can get past firewalls maybe..
I despise cowards who think subjects like r-pe is an acceptable thing to be interested in..
We deal with these diseases every day they do not make up the majority..
Spam is everywhere even in 4 letter words..
Ok I'll come out clean here..
I am the jerk who just picked that from a drop yesterday..
I dont condone rape but I just saw that name and thought maybe someone will be interested in the name for a fantasy rape site..
I am new to domaining and trying to pick names that seem ok..
After these replies I understand I did the wrong thing..
I am sorry if I offended anyone in here.
On a related note can I return this name back to pool since I no longer want this name after these comments..
Some here go to the appraisals section and test the waters there , then decide whether to keep or not ?
Hypens have value. We own about 30 city.com hyphens like Newport-Beach.com, Park-City.com and Lake-Placid.com. However, the problem with hypenated domains (besides the fact they leak traffic to the non-hyphenated versions) is that they receive zero direct navigation...
So then there not so good. Depending on search engine traffic alone is bad. Google/yahoo/msn can drop you anytime they want....
My short LL-L or LL or L-L-L.com's do quite well : (Sorry Arnie for using your tm ).
How many times have we saw people post. This is crap. This is reg fee. Ect...
Only to have these name explode! You have to have a vision of the future! It's up to you! Not what everyone said! You can only set your fortune by your own forsight! Just like they did when it all started...
While hyphens might be good for SEO I don't think too many domainers are attracted to them. Take for example a HostGator I have had for years.... image-host.com The non-hyphen version is probably worth $25k minimum but I can't get $1500 for the hyphenated version. It's about the only hyphen HostGator I have not dropped.
If you like hyphens that's great but overall...I think they don't sell too well...
Everyone on here wants great sales.. It doesn't matter about domainers.. It matters to developers/end users. Domainers rarely buy million dollar names. Why, because most domainers now a days don't have millions. Granted a few do, but the majority don't.
I was not giving my own opinion. I was just seeing what others think. Some think hyphens are negative others positive. I personally love hyphens. They word well with SEO and sense I am a developer help me profit.
Thats all there is to it...
Hyphenated version is roughly 2% of the non hyphenated..
So yours is around $500 worth..
That i'm sure someone should buy it for...
Yeah me...I think that's about what I shelled out.
I had it semi-developed but I never really placed the required effort into it. I always assumed it would get snatched resale. I guess not. Gonna have to develop further...
All my hyphens are being developed as I dont feel the domains hold alot of value on their own. Im sure there are some exceptions...
Just curious... what is the most visited L-L-L.com out there, anybody knows that? and how much traffick does it get?.
I don't think there is any proof of that, it's like saying all domains are only worth a certain multiple of x months revenue. Some people register the hyphen and leave the non hyphen.
True, but there are some selling for very good prices, they're a cheaper alternative for some end users that can't afford to pay $ 100k + for a strong two worder.