Be sure that the domains are actually stolen before handing them over to anyone...
How they were stolen I wonder? Someone forgot to renew them and someone registered it?..
Try to think. Somenone stolen domains owner Godaddy account and pushed the domains to me..
Situation.... And the guy who sold you domain name gone?.
Try to explain the situation. Perhaps they will agree to compensate the fees you have paid.
I suppose that would be honest?..
Yes, he gone. Here is a thread about him: http://www.namepros.com/warnings-and...lling-ccc.html.
And the domain owner think that I have stolen the domains, asks me to transfer domain back and do not want to talk about any compensations..
I can confirm that vytas contacted us as soon as he realised the domains might be stolen. He also understood that paypal might not refund him and that he would have to return the domains to the original owners once they provide proof of ownership and that they were stolen.
I can only commend him on his ethics and his aim to be a straight shooter inspite of a possible loss. I hope that whoever lost the domains could work w/ him, maybe even compensate him - partially if not wholly, that way one person isn't left holding the bag.
I know a 'compensation' is not enforceable, but think of it as the right thing to do to provide support to others who also do the right thing. Just my 0.02 and not speaking 'officially' for NP in any way...
I know that sticking my nose in here may not be wanted but how about a minority share-holding?.
I would say that Vytas bought the domains in all honesty and it is not his fault that the person in question has a problem with his security, why should he have to be out of pocket?.
At least if he handed back the domains which he doesnt have to do as I see it he could be offered a small recurring split...at least that is what I would offer...
Sorry, but if someone stole my car, I want my car back, not a commitment to carpool for the rest of the car's life. If it is legitimately stolen, then it's not really an option for him, he has to return the domains.
However, he needs to really look into what the original owner means by 'stolen'. Not renewing is one thing, someone cracking your account and transferring it out of your grasp is something else entirely...
Rogue - an insurance company won't compensate you for a car theft if you leave the keys in the car.
Now if someone shows up at your doorstep w/ the car, which you'd never have got back ever and insurance wouldn't pay you for either, a carpool for a couple of years would only be fair, if nothing else.
Again, it's your decision, I'm just trying to look for a middle path here...
More appropriately, an insurance company will not pay you a replacement fee if you purchase a stolen car, and the police come and return possession of it to the proper owner. That's not about what feels right or wrong - it's about what is legal and what is illegal.
Again, we do not know the precise details of how the domains were originally acquired for resale, if they simply dropped by accident, then at that point everything gets a little confusing as to options...
Any claims of "stolen" domain names strikes me as a bit odd.
I'd go straight to my current registrar and ask them to render what their judgment is on the matter. At this point, my concern would covering my ass, not covering my losses.
To my view, chain of custody is the biggest issue. If there is a chain of custody that matches a normal domain transfer process, I'd bet you get to keep the names. There is a point at which the original domain owners need to either lawyer up or shut up. I'd get the opinion of the registrar and go from there...
I do not think you should be talking to any party at all. If anybody approaches you with any claim, simply direct them to the registrar and do not try to fix things yourself. It is the job of the registrar to establish if the names were stolen.
We must not forget that scammers resurface disguised in different dresses on a regular basis. On the basis of the little information you have provided, I do not see you losing anything at all...
If you purchased the domains in good faith with no reasonable way of knowing they were stolen, then I think you have the right to keep them by some established legal standard. The original owner should seek to enforce his claim and seek damages from the one who is guilty of stealing them. Just one theory from a non-lawyer. But I think the registrar usually sides with the earliest registrant to make the claim of unauthorized transfer.
I lost lots of $$$ to domain thieves over years of brokering domains. Its very upsetting.
I can't believe what I am reading as far as the responses in this thread. If the domain was legitimately stolen the buyer has no rights to it.
It is an unfortunate incident, but it is like a pawn shop buying stolen merchandise. If the police show up and a pawn shop has stolen merchandise it will get seized and returned to the owner and the pawn shop gets to take the loss.
You can make an argument about the owner needing to secure his property better, but at the end of day if the domain is stolen that is the end of the story. It needs to be returned to the rightful owner. Think of how you would feel if you were on the other end of this.
Despite due diligence, this has happened to me 1 time. After I confirmed it was stolen I transferred the domain back and took a $600 loss.
If their claim can be verified then your only choice is to return the domain IMO.
And this can be established only by the registrar...
If people actually bothered to read the link about how they were stolen you will see it was a phishing scam, in which several members here have already been hit, in fact there is a good chance other members on here have had their accounts hacked and don't even know it yet.
I have shut this guy down from SitePoint as the people so far affected didn't bother because they were too bloody lazy. Basically I saved one guys arse on here and I didn't even get a "thanks" from him for my efforts.
If somebody drops a domain and it's re registered, tough luck. If somebody gets hacked different story, you most likely find the buyer (of the stolen domain/s) didn't do their due diligence more often than not, so a valuable lesson is then learned, no compensation is need.
Basically I am sorry for your loss, and Paypal couldnt give a shit either which only helps these scammers. Unfortunately there can only be one winner and one loser, the scammer (winner) and the person who bought the stolen domains (loser).
Samit, your response is honourable, so no offence to you...
I have just read the thread referred above. I agree with maxeus. This seems a straightforward case. The buyer will lose the domain names. I cannot see any way of compensation either...
I'm sorry if I'm sounding a little abrupt, but I almost got myself banned trying to ban the scammer, I'm a bit fazed by it all myself ATM...
YOu have a good point! At the end of the day, vytas for all intents and purposes bought "clean" names from a seller. he didn't buy them knowing they were stolen and neither did he steal the names ,so he legally did nothing wrong. As a matter of fact, Vytas could hold a solid line if he tells the deprived owners: "talk to the guy who stole your names", then talk to me. But, this is a dicey one, and I think Vytas will at least keep his integrity(which matters alot) if he returns the names. Kudos to you Vytas for taking a higher moral ground...
Thanks everyone for you advice. All in all, I think I should return the domains back to their owners. The owners can not believe that I have bought domains in legit way - they think I am scammer and trying to evade now. So they will contact registrar or even open a court process in the future and will undoubtedly win it because nobody can prove that I am not the scammer and did not send the money to my friend etc..
So although I lose a big amount of money, I have to return domains back to their owners.. I do not see any other solution...
Where are they registered? Like someone said above, it's not your fault that the original owner had a security problem. You may even be the one getting scammed here. Who's to say that person isn't in cahoots with the person who sold you the domains and they will just rinse and repeat the process every time someone gives in and transfers the names back to them? I'm not saying they aren't stolen, but tell me how the original owner can prove they should own the names? What does it matter if they were in their account at one point? If they were pushed to another account, there is no way to tell whether or not that move was fraudulent or not.
I wouldn't develop the names until the issue is resolved (if you end up with the domains), but as far as I'm concerned, this is an issue between the person claiming the names are theirs and the registrar. Don't mistake acting naively for being a stand up guy. Not questioning circumstances like these on the Internet when you don't personally know the other parties is negligent. If the registrar investigates and finds that they are, in fact, stolen; not putting up resistance at that point and giving the names back would make you a stand up guy.
If the original owners were to offer you some compensation, it may be worth it to just avoid any further involvement in the situation and just give the names back, but if not, you're reward is negative (lose your money) no matter what and the risk is that you could possibly be getting scammed yourself...
Jondoe0069, I think I fully agree with you but my dignity worth more than few hundreds of dollars for me. I know that domains were stolen, everybody knows. It would be an acting to avoid the situation. Also I understand how feel that people who lost their domains. They would post my personal information about me as a scammer around the internet - that would be my "winning"..
Please correct me if I am not right, I just do not know what to do.
P.s. also when people contacted godaddy, the registrar frozen the domains - I can neither control them nor push them back to their owners. So now everything is in Godaddy hands I think...
Let the registrar deal with it for now..
ONYA for being so honest and upfront.
Keep us updated.
Let me ask you this very simple question .... If this were reversed.
And he bought names stolen from you would you compensate him.
For his loss? I think you would.
Let the registrar go thru the details. They should be able to clear.
Your name. And don't think that just because you hand the names.
Over that he still wont trash your name. He could just claim you got.
Scared and turned them over...
To this point everything the "law" has said about domains points to the fact that they are not property. There for a domain can not be stolen in the first place.
Example, If some one breaks into your house and makes a complete copy of your computer's hard drive and does not take any thing else. That person can only be charged with B&E and not for any kind of theft.
IMO If he wanted he could keep the domains...
No worries, if by any chance your stolen domains ended up on here for sale it's great to know we have your blessing when we buy them.
Makes perfect sense?..
Thank you for your various opinions. I have been surprised of Godaddy behavior yesterday. The owner of 2 of stolen domains contacted Godaddy about the incident. And Godaddy has pushed the domains back to his account and did not tell me about that anything. That means that you can sell the domain and return it back easily without buyers notice. I think it's quite a big gap in Godaddy's security system...
They do that usually when it's a clear cut case, such as seeing the IP address of the "Peoples Democratic Shithole of Liberia" on multiple logins etc when the owner is in the USA. But yes, no system is perfect.
I had the misfortune of buying some bulk domains from someone who hacked an Enom account and they (Enom) did the same thing, just took the domains back without telling me, I found out from SEDO of all places after I parked them.
My saving grace was I paid via Escrow and cancelled the payment just in time. In Fact by the time the US dollar check from Escrow came back I had made $150 on the currency transaction back to AUS $.
I'm probably the only domainer to ever be scammed and come out ahead!.
Anyway I admire your morals and I'm sorry for you given what happened, you deserve some good karma IMO...