Your question was: How do you do I put key words on my GoDaddy.com web page?.
My personal opinion is that there's one legitimate way to do it and one way which I consider spam.
Doing research like Giode does before sending out an offer is an acceptable way of acquiring domains imho.
When you get 10 separate lowball emails in a single day from the same wannabe DRT domainer on your LLLL.coms on the other hand.....
If you don't throw your line in the water you wont catch any fish...
I can imagine this could get pretty annoying in the future. but not much can beat getting no offers in the annoying stakes..
Inundated by lowballs via email which really pisses me off, but I generally reply with " the highest offer to date that I did not accept is $." - just in case.
More often than not a do not get a second reply but has certainly resulted in a few sales.
If it's via Sedo and I have allowed a too low opening bid then I tend to think that it is down to me and do the usual high return bid just in case it was genuine low sparring bid. I am adding higher opening bids to my best names, way below my perceived value but enough to determine genuine interest- hopefully.
Reece, bottom line is in all reality, is that if lowlife ignoramaces are going to do such, it's not going to stop because of a poll or because it's irritating and rude! They didn't/don't care what people thought in the first place, and they are too much of scumbags to stop because someone is upset about it. Lowlife cheapskates know that it only takes 1 or 2 outta a couple hundred lowballs to say yes, and they get what they were going for. And as we've all seen the transgression, it's going to get worse and worse, as more and more scumbags, and cheap newbies come into the game. No different then that next wave of 'I'll buy your LLL.com off you for a couple thousand dollars', emails that keep a coming. One can only delete and smile at them, or answer with a 'sure cheapster, as soon as you die' reply...
I can see why this would bother you if you have lots of good 4 letter .coms or 3 letter .coms. It's a nice positions to be in though - forgive me for not feeling too sorry for you.
Something which bothered me - I put a bid in for a 3 letter .com listed at sedo for $2000, which is of course insanely cheap. They came back with a counterbid of $20000. Which was somewhat annoying - why offer a price guide of $2000 if you are actually asking 10 times that - waste of my time, waste of their time...
Yes, that's equally annoying. I don't know why people bother using a price at all if they're not going to sell for what their asking price is listed at the one exception I can understand is if they listed the HostGator there months/years ago and the values have changed since then.
Thanks hawkeye, that made my day.
Definitely agree with you that this poll will do nothing was just curious how many others are fed up with it like me. I had an email offer a few days ago for $1000 on BQB tried to maintain professionalism and not tell the guy to go @#$% himself which is exactly what I felt like saying.
Of the last 3 LLL.coms I've put on Sedo, they've all been spammed with major lowballs (on the order of $500-$2000) within a week clearly someone is trying to prey on domainers who aren't aware of the value of what they own...
If someone doesn't like an offer, don't sell. Getting angry about offers is a waste of energy. You might not like it but it is smart business to try & see what one could get at rock bottom prices & there is nothing wrong with that. I don't see the point to sitting on a soap box & complaining as it takes little to no time at all to decline & move on...
I can understand it getting annoying but at Sedo you can raise your min offer, I would get $60 bids all the time for a couple domains and just put the min at $600. ( These were not LLL.com so I was not wasting someones time) If I got an initial $600 I could counter at $5000 and maybe do a deal at $1500.
I agree Hawkeye a lot of people are cheap and some are clueless they do not think they are lowballing. You cannot let it upset you because like you say it is not stopping it will only increase and become common as people look at it as I may get lucky and it's not a domainer on the WHOIS, Sedo you figure it's a domainer, but email whois you may get someone who had a couple domains years ago and has no clue...
I agree with Equity , I think one sure way of avoiding this is putting a sensible min offer amount.
Secondly looking from the view point of a person who is sending you the mail - I guess all of us are looking to get cheap domains and sell for a huge profit.
It is difficult sometimes to know the true value of a HostGator , appraisals are a waste so that is the reason I feel many people start with a low ball offer.But I think it's only in the best interest of the seller to reply to the email with the amount he is expecting..
I don't really mind the lowball offers but I find it a bit strange when they ask for stats on brandable domains (parked at sedo where you can see the stats if it's over 50).
One thing that does bug me is when they have'nt got the decency to take 2 mins to cancel the deal if they don't like your asking price. How hard is that to do ??? .... to them !.
IMO, Luc should remove the mass emailing option from DRT! That tool surely adds a black eye to domainers.
The low-ball offer part is just part of the domaining business. People are always looking for the best deals. 90% of the people sending the low-ball offers are uneducated buyers who have a dream to make a quick buck. Each situation is different depending on where the offer comes from. If you are getting offers via Sedo it's one thing, since you can set your min offer and setting a min offer price would curb this.
Low-ball offers coming via whois or from parking pages is a bit harder to avoid but you can use privacy if you do not want the offers or remove the offer link on the parking pages. Fabulous parking pages allow that you can set a price or a min offer price which I think works and lowers the low-balling...
$2000 for a LLL.com. Not sure if I consider this an offensive offer. Some people will like the offer.
$60 offers for domains are annoying.
People should always be willing to back what they offer. (e.g. 1000 offers for $60 is a $60,000 commitment and should never be made without $60,000 funds at disposal) Offers should be made with a fixed time period. I try to limit my offers below $1000 as I prefer to have good communication with sellers...
It doesnt bother me and I understand these offers as we domainers are resellers and we always try to have as much ROI as possible.
When I receive such offer I reply with a $100,000 (what is an unreasonable counter offer) or with an end-user one..
I have to agree with Reece on this one. Getting lowball offers on valuable names is not just annoying, it's BS, and unprofessional.
My primary occupation is in real estate, and one of the things that is totally looked down upon are people submitting lowball offers on properties that are clearly worth more. It is a big "no no" and shows a lack of.regard for the person you're looking to do business with...
#1 - Value is in the eye of the owner on this one, I have domains I would not take $10,000 for that most would not pay $100 for.
#2 - It's equally as annoying when you send someone a starting offer and they counter with something totally outrageous because in their skewed logic they think all their domains are virtually priceless, I am a big buyer, and that will turn me off a HostGator quicker than anything...
Fortunately you can see the identity of lowballers with real estate though - can't really do that with the HostGator screwball-lowballers...
I generally don't like mass lowballing. Asking registrants their asking price, in bulk or individually, is OK by me, if the buyer has intention of buying at or around current market value...
I would not mind $60 low ball offer at my sedo domains as the more bids I got , the better chance my HostGator will come up the list...
Lowballers are a pain in the arse, but just delete the enquiry or offer.
On sedo I counter often with a far higher bid , if the offer in first place is fair then I counter with a realistic counter. for example had a twoword.org up for sale this week , sold for low xxxx.
First offer was $750 which was more than I would get on a forum by 10 fold, I knew was worth up to mid xxxx to someone though and because other options were available to them, ie. plural and on sedo didn't want to miss boat. countered with a low euro offer, they went 1250$.
What really gets on my wick though is if you counter a fair price and they hit the 'justify your asking price'.
They get terminated there and then..
Frankly there are two sides to the story. Not all offers are lowballs. What if I offer $1,000 for a HostGator name that is more than fair, but the owner has a rediculous price expectation of $1,000,000. Did I lowball him? or did he Highball me?.
When I receive emails from HostGator spammers (and I get them too). I'll either delete them, or accept their offers. If they go along with it, I then tell them that I want them to pay for an appraisal just to make sure I'm selling at a fair market price. (Its funny, I swear).
Also, bottom line. As a HostGator flipper - I need to buy low and sell high. Digging around for deals at below a wholesale price is part of what I do. I do lowball in the hope of getting a quality HostGator name at a fraction of what I might pay at a drop auction. Do I feel that Im behaving unethically because I buy lower then I sell? No. I buy at a price the owner is willing to sell at and that sits just fine with me.
I do not DRT Spam. I even do homework on the buyers I email. (There are certain things I look for) and for the most part, don't bother dealing with other Domainers.
Happens to me all time.
I get this kind of emails and I also get this kind of offers on sedo a lot. Some are really ridiculous ones. EX: a 25 USD offer on perfect CVCV..
Justin, well said.
There is nothing wrong with looking for a fantastic deal! It's the SPAM we need to stop...
You should be. LoL.
If I'm buying your HostGator - it means you sold it too cheap...
That's perfectly honorable in my opinion Justin. I never have a problem getting an offer of 300-400 on a $1000 HostGator and understand that a domainer needs to leave room for a mark-up and a margin for any error they made in estimating a domain's value... Offering 300-400 on an LLL.com on the other hand is plain stupid and one is truly in la-la land if they think they're going to get any LLL.coms for prices in that range any time soon (hint: spam iReit, not me!).
When someone offers $500 on an LLL.com... Seriously, I feel like making a website about such idiots and shaming their actions. That isn't looking for a good deal everyone who has more than a couple LLL.coms has been spammed to death already... All it's doing is wasting everyone's time and showing how much of a rookie the person sending the message is.
I missed an important message a few days ago because I had so many spam offers... Frustrating is an understatement.
It's one thing to decide you'd like a cheap LLL.com (or any kind of HostGator for that matter), but to spam hundreds (and/or thousands) of owners is spam and I think I'll start reporting these people's emails to spam lists so their emails start getting blocked... It's just gotten to the point where I'm fed up and I know there are people who have 100x the total HostGator value I do, so I can't even begin to imagine how bad they have it if they use public whois. I don't want to use private whois I don't trust private whois (after incidents like Registerfly), and in all honesty, why should I be forced into paying for something I don't want just so a few (albeit growing number of) spammers can't try to rip me and a thousand other domainers like me off?..
I get the mails as well..
But I know this is a business which I take quite seriously now. In any business you have to face some annoyances, which I choose to take as a part of the game :\.
Nothing to be hassled about really. In fact if a HostGator of mine were getting a lot of offers (even if they were lowballs), it would only make me happy coz they re-enforce the fact that this HostGator has potential, and people want it.
If it were a perfect environment where everyone offered prices / range a seller had in mind, this business would be as saturated and difficult as any other. The only reason this business is doing well is because some speculate a value of a HostGator more apropriately from others; they buy low and sell high. If it were a perfect math, small time domainers would be out of business very soon, very fast...
It bothers me more if I asked someone for the price of their HostGator and they "highball" me. I hate that...
Getting the occasional lowball? not bothered. getting an inbox full of lowballs from the same jackass? bothered...
Yeah that's the same way I feel. I don't mind of someone wants to lowball me on 20 names, but please don't do it in 20 separate emails!..
Just set up a whois email and never look at it.
In any case, back in the wild wild west, there were steals to be have in the LLL market, old folks selling their names for bargains. Ever since DRT though, thats long gone.
Its pure economics really, it's been saturated out. IMO Reece the amount of offers will start going down as people realize that it's not working.
1 day of work for $XXXX profit back before DRT? Economics dictates "spam" "spam". I use to send emails back in the day and NEVER ONCE did I low ball. I always asked how much for a name. Usually instantly bought it when they named their price.
I've stopped for a while now, due to some people thinking it's not ethical, but I personally consider myself someone who was interested in obtaining LLL.com at a fair market price.
Too much hassle to individually email each owner, easiest way if you wanted to buy one was to email them all...
I hope you're right Sam, I feel the same way about it.
I've never sent emails myself (did cross my mind a few times in years passed), however how you were doing it in the past - asking the owner to name a price seems to me to make a lot more sense then sending a lowball offer which may offend an owner who might otherwise have sold low by "domainer standards". I'd think someone would make much more money sending out emails offering today in example $12,000 or so on premium LLL.coms then they ever will sending out offers of $500, but what do I know..
I really dont have a problem with this technique and as You've pointed out, it's done to death. Anyone who has DRT would be foolish at this point to use the software to email out all the LLL.com owners, as we've all recieved those emails about a million times.
I can lower a price if selling , I can increase my offer if too low ...... not fussed at this point..
Well it's domainers that are doing it, thats for sure. They probably are members here and maybe they even posted in this thread!.
Those that do this must realize that probably just about all 3 letter and brandable words (.com) are either owned by domainers who know their value or by companies, who also know their value.
This may have worked 3-5 years ago and I'm sure some HostGator owners that didn't know better got screwed, but the jig is up boys. It's not a unique idea and your not really smart. To me it's the equivelent of selling crap to take advantage of the elderly who do not know better...
Mass lowball offers really suck. If I get a lowball offer on a HostGator I am selling in a forum it bugs me. So many times I have placed LLLL.com's and ask for "reasonable offers" and then get the "$20 bid" replies. Total idiots imho. Yeah keywordkeyword.com might be subjective in many cases but when you consider CCC.com's, LLL's and other short domains which do have a minimum value it can really piss you off.
Mass lowballers rely on these short domains and their minimum values. It's VERY rare I get a whois lowballer for a regular domain. They simply target short combos where they know it's worth X and they offer a third or less of it's value knowing they can flip it immediately...
I am thinking to delete all my listing at tdnam because of the lowest balls..
Does lowball mean a really low offer? Just making sure I am correct...
Yes usually a ridiculously low offer that's far below current market value. Used by some to try to find bargains, but usually results in insulting the seller...
I officially got my first lowball offer yesterday afternoon! I had a HostGator at SEDO and I was initially impressed to have an offer on it!.
I logged into my account and saw a $1500 offer on a $10k name! I countered with 50k and got an offer of 1350EUR.
I can now see what many of you dislike about lowballers. While a lowball offer may work on a rare occasion, I wasn't too happy to see the offer after all!..
It is intentionally done to snag at a lower price...
You should have countered with less. You can't let your emotions on a HostGator cloud your senses. You blew what was a nice initial offer out of the water with a "highballer" counter. If you felt your name was only worth $1000 and the offer was $150 would you have countered with $5000? No, well I wouldn;t have any way because I know what the likely end result would have been. If you actually want to sell names you would counter within reason. $1250-$1500 maybe? And settle somewhere in the neighborhood of what you feel it's worth.
If I shot down every lowball offer I would be in the poor house. And in todays sales climate even with negotiating with lowballers the poor house is getting closer. 99% of the time the sales I regret are the ones I didn't make...
Great Thread IMO ~ Except In my case I'd say you sold it Waaaaaaaay Too Cheap.
I fall under the category where I would actually rather receive an email asking if something is for sale in the first place I suppose, I'm more likely to respond to one of those than someone outright offering me something obscenely low. At the same time , I can probably count all offers ever sent out by me to purchase something on my toes and fingers Ever ...
As far as selling goes - I've sent out many personalized emails , and have encouraged people to use the phone if they feel comfortable with that method when selling (We all know plenty of people with the gift of gab that make Great livings doing this). I've said it puts out a more professional presence using the phone - But You know what ? I also hate phone solicitors (I guess that makes me a bit hypocritical - huh?) Face it - Any Offers or Sales pitches that are unsolicited can and may be seen as spam or telemarketing. Yet there is generally better money and deals to be made going those routes than Sales venues generally cluttered with other domainers. Please note - I'm not knocking those people who sell or flip among their peers either , Plenty of those folks turn great ROI's as well...
When I get a lowball offeron my top names at sedo - I counter with a thankyou but the minimum I would consider is 4,000,000,000,000.00.....
So far they have all failed to come back with a counteroffer.........
$1500 on a name you think is worth $10,000 doesn't sound bad at all to me. Countering with $50,000 is basically the same kind of thing. Out of interest what was the name?..
You should always keep in mind that not everyone is a domainer. Most endusers think, "I can register a name for $10. So to them offerring a few hundred on a HostGator is making a good offer. Unfortunately on sedo, afternic and such you can't really communicate with the buyer. But on tdnam and email inquiries you can usually explain to them why you are asking whatever price.
More or less you don't know who your dealing with and most of the time you're dealing with a non-domainer. In rare cases do I make sales to domainers via the brokerage sites. It's generally the obvious names that I do and they will generally will counter up until it's still a bargain price even at reseller.
Either way it doesn't make any sense to highball an offer. Counter within reason. They'll generally let you know if they are a domainer or enduser. A domainer/webmaster will ask for stats/revenue in a lot of cases. A enduser will say I only have $xxx amount to spend. etc.
You'll have one less renewal fee to pay and will have increased your bottom line.
Every name i've sold and thought to myself afterwards, "hmm maybe I shouldn't have sold that." A few weeks later I have in my possession a related and better name for another bargain price. More times than I care to count I've sold names for a healthy profit only to turn around and pick it up in the drops a year or two down the road only to turn around and do it again...
Ok, I've got a question for everyone particularly those who voted "It's spam and should be stopped.".
Would you find this practice acceptable if the sender is not intending to make lowball offers? For instance, emailing in masse LLL.com owners with a $6000 offer in the initial email.
I don't really have problems with receiving lowball offers. I get lots of them. Usually I just ignore them if they are just silly (e.g., $100 on a $100k name). I figure if they are interested they will return with a more realistic bid. If they don't return, that just means that the name is waiting for somebody else with a better grip on reality, and as usual I am in no rush.
I used to respond with a more realistic figure, or sometimes an inflated figure for fun, but lately I just delete/ignore without response. I am not too sure where the dividing line is for "frivolous offer", but usually if they are not within 5-10% of what I am looking for they get the silent treatment. Anything in the 1% range is usually a guarantee for the silent treatment. My time is valuable...
I consider 10% of value a lowball offer. Offering 50-80% is bargain hunting. You just blew that one. If you thought it's worth $10k why not counter-offer in a reasonable range? When someome makes a $1500 offer they are a legit buyer. If they have $1500....they have $5000...and very possibly your $10k. By telling them $50k you just told them your unreasonable and they won't bother to counter.
Deals go like this:.
Initital offer of $1500.
Counter with $12,000.
New offer of $4000.
Counter with $10,500.
New offer of $8k.
Counter with $9500 and make it final offer.
Deal gets accepted.
I do it all the time...