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Hi everyone, quick 1st question: Godaddy.com??.

My 2nd question is: Source:.

FCC Votes 3-2 to Regulate Internet via Net Neutrality | The Blaze.

The language is there clear as day. CANSPAM legitimizes email marketing therefore what we do is legal. ISP's using filtering technology can / should now be reprimanded. We still need a precedent..

Opinions?..

Comments (34)

Your question was: Godaddy.com??.

I don't know I kind of read this article differently, are we defined as an application or service? Are you claiming Yahoo and the others now have to allow all email in and cannot block? I don't see this happening...

Comment #1

Not a chance..

ISP's have a TOS/AUP and they can do whatever they like in regards to protecting their network, just as some do not allow PORN for their "reputation".

As long as Spamhaus, a private non-regulated, corporation exists and can effect the ISP by blacklisting whole IP blocks based on their 'investigations', and fucking with THEIR business... shit rolls downhill.

Rules of the game...

Comment #2



It all comes down to how this will be interpreted by courts..

You can have multiple interpretations of any statute or rule, and as always it takes actual litigation to establish case law. We'll find out soon enough..

CAN-SPAM email clearly fits the definition of the lawful application / service that would be illegal to block. So there is definitely the case to argue..

If the right interpretation stands it would become illegal to block email based on Spamhaus listings and ISPs will no longer have this BS excuse to profit as accomplices of Haus blackmail...

Comment #3

Sorry toots.

Unless you eliminate the Spamhaus blackmail of ISP's, you are not going to get an ISP to cave in to anything, regardless of a mailer's interpretation of law. Spamhaus is the source of your grief, and until they, as an unregulated, non-government, private corporation threatening the business of ISP's around the world, is dealt with...

Nothing is going to change at the ISP level..

/2cts..

Comment #4

So why would you not just disregard their blacklistings if it becomes illegal to apply them?.

Why is it just Haus? Why not terminate for a blacklisting by any two-bit punk who can publish a random list of IPs?.

Sounds like a big load of crap to excuse stealing your clients' money...

Comment #5

Sorry for your frustrations silly Russian.

However, you obviously have absolutely no understanding of the power Haus wields over an ISP on the back end with their blacklistings, those who use them, and the ripple effect it causes. You see things through your beer goggles in regard to your own little world, and from your own point of view only not considering the bigger picture.

Sadly, that is nothing close to the reality of all sides, and considerations..

/2cts..

Comment #6



It's all about the dough, and who gets to take more of it out of your pocked..

Comment #7

If the law is interpreted correctly Spamhaus will have no power in US and ISPs of all levels will be prevented by law from basing any of their policies on their blacklist..

You keep bitching about their power, but seem to really like it just the way it is...

Comment #8

No toots. I point out that ISP's have to bend to the will of Spamhaus.

The ISP policies, and regulation are a side effect, or direct result, of the Haus black lists, and the ripple effect is has on their business as a host. Look what happened to Sharktech a month back. Spamhaus kept hammering them until they blacklisted their WHOLE IP block. Every day listing more, and more until they caved..

U.S. law on net neutrality does not mean shit for the rest of the world. Each county (example China) is free to do what they wish in regards to law, and governing. Additionally, I doubt most ISP's, regardless of country, enjoy having to cave in to some international, un-regulated, private, corporation that effects their business and bottom line via their 'investigations', assumptions, and SBL listings.

Which, once more, reinforced your narrow minded view point in regards to ISP's...

Comment #9

If it is illegal to block email using Spamhaus, neither you nor your upsteam has to bend to their will. They can blacklist all they want and it will be ignored by everyone..

Even under the status quo ISPs who have their shit together can work things out with their clients instead of blaming Haus for everything..

I am done with this argument...

Comment #10

Good to hear, because you clearly have absolutely no, realistic, understanding of how Spamhaus works, and effects the internet traffic as a whole. In silly Russian world ISP's are out to....

1. Rip Off Clients for No Reason..

2. Turn Away Big Box Business and Server Orders Worth Tens of Thousands of Dollars..

3. Bend to the Will of Some Unregulated, International, Corporate Entity Without Cause..

Oh yeah, that sounds realistic...

Comment #11



In an ideal world, the 'silly Russian' is indeed correct, technically. In all reality, will the FCC even be concerned about Spamhaus? Probably not..

Btw, if you run for president, ill vote for you! (we already ignored the whole 'born in America' rule before anyways)..

Comment #12



Yeah, avoid answering actual questions and post pictures of laughing dogs...

Comment #13

LOL! Why would I ever subject myself to the hassle of pursuing public office ?!..

Comment #14

Web hosts would cash in on the big box clients, and would not have to worry about the Haus, black lists, and the effect on it's networks. The fact silly Russian thinks any ISP wants to turn away big dollars, and hundreds of server voluntarily, is ridiculous..

The FCC has nothing to do with Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, AOL, corporations, and other major ISP/networks that voluntarily pay for, or choose to use the Haus and their feed service to filter their incoming mail, and pass judgement on other networks.

You're a clown kid. You have no idea how Haus works, and why ISP's have to consider their SBL's and bullshit. It is not because everyone wants to turn away business, and give some unregulated, non-government, entity control of their business and decisions. The fact you keep thinking that ISP's willing are in some conspiracy to rip off end clients for no reason is laughable..

Only in silly Russian world.....

Comment #15

The ISPs will do what ever the law tells them they have to do. If that means not blocking you then they can't block you end of story. Doesn't matter wtf the ISP wants to do if it's an American company it's under American law...

Comment #16



Last time I checked the FCC stood for:.

Federal Communications Commission as in the US Government..

The real question here is not whether or not US Corporations/businesses will have to abide by their regulations but the interpretation of the law..

Rule of law can go either way solely by interpretation (which is why the Supreme Court for example has more than 1 justice). Since none of us are legally practicing attorneys (not that I'm aware of anyway) our arguments are somewhat moot..

What we need to be doing IMO is finding someone who works in this particular legal sector and asking their feedback, rather than infighting amongst ourselves..

And hey, DKPMO I'll run for President in your place. I'd love a blowjob from a chunky intern just to say it happened :-)..

Comment #17

An ISP (like any business) can still choose which customers they do, and do not, want to take. They do not have to take mailers, just like some web hosts opt to not take on PORN, Xrumer, Proxies, or other types of clients. Including those who can't pass a simple fraud test..

In the end it is still a businesses choice on who they opt to let on their network...

Comment #18

True dat. However, as I said previously, it is not the LAW that is the issue. It is the networks/corporations/AOL/Yahoo/Hotmail/Comcast who voluntarily use Spamhaus, which is why THAT is the source of your issue and grief..

You can finger point at an ISP for bending to their blackmail all you like. However, the actual FACT remains that they bend because they have to bend because of Spamhaus. A lot of other networks around the world us Spamhaus filters, and services. So if you are blacklisted, it effects your network, reputation, and your NON-MAILER clients also on the network..

It's not ISP's that stop your mail, and have you jumping from host to host. It is the wrath of the Haus and the ripple effects. You can keeping blaming the ISP with your misplaced anger, but it has nothing to do with your mail not getting through when you blacklist yourself, Spamcop complaints, SBL's, or any of that other b.s. that leads to abuse and terminations..

Pass a law eliminating the Haus, and then you will actually make some progress...

Comment #19



The back and forth on this, while mildly entertaining, is a serious waste of time. As I read it, only briefly glancing over it for key words like "email unfettered into any ISP!!!", all I saw was that it's basically to keep AT&T from blocking Verizon from advertising to it's clients and so forth. (simply an example people).

In the end, it took SEVEN years to get this passed and it will be that much time if not longer before ANYTHING comes of this. You can believe lawyers are working on loop holes, arguments, strategies and any other possibilties to continue to allow ISPs to do what they've always done.

Get over it...nothings changed. Go back to work on better delivery and shit....

.02..

Comment #20



^ debating amongst ourselves is too fun to sacrifice just because we aren't 'experts'..

Comment #21

Oh I know Kat...and I love it just as much as the next guy/gal, but the 'debating' turned into petty back and forth...but hey, I'm no 'debate expert' so what the fuck do I know?!..

Comment #22



I don't understand why this thread got so emotionally charged. I think there are other things going on between people on here under the surface that got vented here. Anyway, I think if someone was inclined they could hire a team of lawyers to go after ISP's for utilizing blacklists. Clearly under the new FCC law it is illegal to block legal traffic. The law is the law...

Comment #23



I think this law finally puts some rights on the side of legal, compliant, lawful, can-spam abiding senders. Regarding the "AUP/TOS" - that DOES NOT apply to us. That applies to the account holders at the respective ISPs..

Perhaps the Holomaxx lawyers can change strategy to implement this new law as part of their case...

Comment #24



I don't think this will have ANY affect on what we do. This is mostly to keep the internet free and clear and protect corporations methods of profiting off delivering internet and content. I think it mostly impacts the cable and fiber internet providers and only protects copyrights.....

Comment #25

I believe it was Crackp0t who once said "it's a forum, we're all assholes to each other but at the end of the day we're all still friends"...

Comment #26

If the law is interpreted by a judge to say "You can't out right block email that's can spam compliant" then yeah they have to accept your mail or face legal action. I'm not talking about the sending end I'm talking about the receiving end. And to lump compliant mailing into the same category as porn, proxies, etc is absurd...

Comment #27

I'd like to think we are ..

I'll generally take the opposing side of any argument even if I don't really believe in it just to argue. I use to love debate ...

Comment #28

Indeed. Depending on how things get ultimately resolved you may or may not learn the gory details.

I for one will refrain from forming and publicizing my final judgement until the matters are fully closed..

That was my point all along...

Comment #29



Check it out!! They are getting really nervous now..

Will the FCC's 'Net Neutrality' Proposal Impede Spam Filtering?..

Comment #30



Hmm the date of that article is January 14th, 2010...(weird).

But yeah it will definitely get interesting if this someone challenges filtering with this law...

Comment #31



NEWSFLASH FOR EVERYONE: If you guys don't protest this Net Neutrality Bill there is more at stake than you realize. Not only are ALL DOWNLOAD SITES illegal and Google WILL BE seized by the government (giving them so much data and the tools to search it), but more than that....SPAM INCREASES! Why you ask....

I am NOT OPPOSED to a regulated internet...but I AM OPPOSED to the hasty and pork-filled Bill to do it. I make my money on the web. I would love to see legal bulk mail be freely distributed, but not at the cost of my internet freedom or Google's records on me..

I want to see UCE's regulated by country (as it should be), and I think that each country needs to regulate their access to materials that negatively affect their economy (ie; US has a large Entertainment-Based economy), but unless they change the way the Bill is written, they will have the power to seize Google and it's records. That gives this government WAY TOO MUCH POWER!.

Any thoughts?..

Comment #32



I AM SOOOO INTERESTED IN THIS THREAD! Although I saw the Net Neutrality Bill as a VERY risky move (especially with all the pork), I do see this particular issue being a resolve of the biggest threats to our industry....I am SOOO TORN RIGHT NOW!..

Comment #33



I'm no expert but I'd think that section 7707(c) of the Can-Spam act basically allows ISPs to do whatever they want as far as filtering goes. Yes we may be canspam compliant but so is filtering and blocking lol.

(c) NO EFFECT ON POLICIES OF PROVIDERS OF INTERNET ACCESS SERVICE- Nothing in this Act shall be construed to have any effect on the lawfulness or unlawfulness, under any other provision of law, of the adoption, implementation, or enforcement by a provider of Internet access service of a policy of declining to transmit, route, relay, handle, or store certain types of electronic mail messages...

Comment #34


This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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