It may depend on whether you company can be considered a TM. Not really sure about these things...
How long have you been in biz, how long has the .com been registered? you could prove common law rights maybe?..
The .com has been registered for only 2 months now, my domain is over a year.
My company works alot in education and with an other large organization, combined with the press it's about money for him.
I feel I can prove he registered it for profit, but he said he is willing to fight for it legally (probably BS).
Evertonian7uk, great to meet another blue.
I actually have evertonian.net and everton.biz if your interested..
So you run a business that seems to be doing rather well and you think that spending $xxx is completely unreasonable to acquire your dot com? Honestly, considering the amount of press you are talking about, that asking price seems far too reasonable to be a squatter. At least that's how it appears.
Also, if your company deals in education and the owner of the .com has legitimate plans to make it into a web design company, than you would really have no rights to the name, since it's use would be completely different from your own. I don't know what the domain is, or what the owner's true intentions are, but I am merely saying that the situation isn't as cut and dry as you may think.
If you try to take it via legal methods, you're looking at spending $x,xxx - $xx,xxx and you still may not win.
Personally, I think you should just try to acquire it now for the least amount of money possible before it turns into a major headache for you. If that means buying it from the owner than so be it. Unless you're online identity is not worth $xxx to you and your company...
But if it's not about the money and you just want to teach the guy a lesson (which I completely understand), you may want to look at the sticky thread in this forum for various lawyers who specialize in domain law...
I work mainly with education, but we are a web design company, education is just the brunt of our contracts.
The money isn't the issue as such, I just have a low threshold to con artists and chancers, I suppose I feel by paying him for it, I will just encouraged him and somehow convinced him what he is doing is right.
I did notice the sticky earlier, I will check that out.
Thanks for all your help folks!..
I understand what you're saying. Though I think people who generally act in this manner really require no convincing that what they are doing is right They don't possibly think they could be wrong... And even if you "taught them a lesson", they'd probably just complain about how unfair the system is.
I am not certain whether any of those lawyers are in the UK, if you would prefer a local presence. But if you're going to be getting legal assistance on domain related issues, I would definitely recommend someone with experience in this field. Generally speaking, it is just IP law, but domains are a complicated beast and as I said it may not be as cut and dry as one might imagine.
Best of luck to you!..
Im sure I will need some luck!.
Im in dialogue with the registrars legal department, hopefully they might have some ideas?.
Always a pleasure to meet fellow blues (havent been to Goodision for years, I live in Germany now ).
Anyway, from what you've said, I think common law is going to be to difficult to achieve, since your both in the same field (web design) you should try to get a good repor with the other guy and make a resonable offer,.
Like RR says, low XXX isnt too bad, if it's the right name for you.
Do you know the other guy at all, I just wonder how he happen to reg the name you wanted, and how he knew it would effect you if he bought it.
Good luck buddy, 2-1 tomorrow!!!!..
Nope dont know the bloke!.
Fingers crossed for 2-1, if we dont we can kiss 4th good bye..
Depending on the registrar, they might tell you to get a court order or just file.
A Uniform Dispute Resolution Policy (UDRP) thing...
At that price. I'd just pay him the money. It's cheap. And it's a simple solution. Probably the value of your time you've already spent on this is more than he is asking for the domain. Be pragmatic (TM)...
If money is not the issue, pay it.
First, it will cost you much more to "take" it and you could be just wasting money. What king of deal do you think you could work out if you do try to take it and loose? The price will only go up and he's like me you will never get it..
Second, if he is doing wrong that is on him, not you. Make the best choices for you and your company...
In the domaining world xxx is peanuts, and if you can get the name for that I would definately go for it, you will lose that much easily if your site has as much press as you say, many visitors go to the dotcom and you are losing business as we speak..
Thanks for your input, I suppose I'm being stubborn really, paying for it probably would be the lesser evil.
Well hopefully he responds to my latest offer!..
Did that include threatening a lawsuit, by any chance?..
Threating a lawsuit? I have made no threats of a lawsuit, I dont want to wind the bloke up, it would only add more on the asking price..
That is true. ** LEGAL ADVISORY ** I AM NOT an attorney I am simply a human. My advice is what I would do and should not in any way shape or form be consittered real legal advice. If you need that please check the sticky as it has some good attorneys that specialize in Law.
I would simply tell him that you belive that this is your identity and you will take the necessary actions to get it back.
That is hinting at a lawsuite and should get the msg across. However it's worked many times for me and sometimes it caused the price to go up use at your own risk...
I agree. However others are right...to obtain the domain you will either need to pay legal fees and pray you win...or just buy it which is exactly what the seller is hoping with his reasonable price. Consider it an expense for not obtaining your dot com to begin with. Shame on you for getting the co.uk and NOT the dot com instead..haven't you heard? Dot Com is KING!..
Lol I know I know!.
God knows why I didnt register the .com, I registered the .co.uk as I'm uk based and so is a large section of my clients, I should have registered all of them together!..
If somethig in business can be solved with a check it is not a problem, it is a business solution.
Now what you may want to do is send him, via e-mail, so he can get it in PayPal, 60% of what he is asking. If he is asking, $500, send $300.
With this e-mail:.
Attached is $300 that will serve as compensation for your relinquishing ownership of domain: __________ that is actually the name and identity of our company, started back in _________.
Now, if he accepts the payment, you for one will feel better because while he held you up for some money, you have some satisfaction as to the amount you got held up for.
If he takes your money and does not give you the domian, he has committed fraud ,as the e-mail clearly spells out what the payment is for.
The idea is simple as you can see.
When he opens that e-mail, that is cash in hansd...a little difficult to refuse.
If he does refuse, then he has set down the battle lines and you found that out without an attorney fee.
Yeah, dont do this, this is asking for trouble, you lose the cash and still dont get the domain, just because he accepts payment doesnt mean he has to transfer the domain, after all he didnt sign the letter, nor did any legal party, thats asking for trouble lol...
So, let me get this straight.
You run a business which is not in business to make money. Instead, you started a business to demonstrate your committment to various principles of yours.
That's a fascinating type of business.
You may have a slam-dunk situation, maybe not. But you really need to sit down and think about whether paying some other person thousands of dollars to obtain what you can have for hundreds of dollars is any way to run a business.
Lawyers love guys like you...
You missed the point. The offer is made in the public domainwhere the intent is clearly recognized.
If he takes the money the matter is over.
If he takes the money and does not disgorge the domain he has committed fraud and now the person seeking the rightful domain kows excatly where the matter stands and what avenues to proceed.
If you want to make a point on principle, pay him the asking amount which is fairly reasonable, then sue him after you have it if money isn't the issue. You'll have the domain quicker, with less risk, and and lower cost. You'll also have better proof of bad faith and actual damages in the form of the sale.
If you start a legal fight first instead of paying, you take the chance of losing and he has evidence of winning the first case and never releasing the domain to you, or flipping to to someone else so you can start all over again.
You can then spend whatever you are willing to pay for your principles afterwards, as well as seek what you originally paid as damages if you really think you can win and want to spend money to teach him a lesson.
Remember the old saying that "Possession is 9/10ths of the law".
Remember the Golden Rule...He who owns the gold, makes the rules...
Which costs him more money when he doesnt transfer, with legal fee's and all the BS, this is not the way I would do it at all, wayyyyyyy to many scammers out there to try this...
I want to play the devil's advocate for a while.
How can you be sure that the name was registered to make a quick buck on your .co.uk ? .
First off we do not know the name in question. It may be pretty generic or obviously suitable for their purpose, so the fact the .com was registered by another party might just be coincidence. They *might* have noticed other extensions were taken (at least .co.uk) while the .com was available. That still doesn't mean you were a target..
Also, you say you are involved in education and the other party wants to use the domain name for webdesign business. Not exactly the same "industry".
Finally there is the issue of TM rights - or the lack thereof..
I'm not taking sides here - again I don't know the name, you may be right but I also want to stress that sometimes domain holders are overreaching, and they think they have a monopoly to the other extensions, in particular when they missed the .com.
Each case is different and we should always be cautious before pointing out fingers at anybody. I will also add that I often register available .com where other extensions (.net/.org) are taken. If there are no TM issues why not ? .
Just a thought...
Oh, good golly, then use an escrow service.
In the time spent huffing and puffing here, you could have written and filed a UDRP complaint and been done with it...
Hope all gets clear for you and I can't resist saying how interesting it is for me to see the title of this thread "Domain Legal Help" Since I've got "DomainLegalHelp,com" Kinda neat.