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Canon: 30D + 17-85 IS USM or Sony A200 + Sigma 17-70
Canon: 30D + 17-85 IS USM or Sony A200 + Sigma 17-70.

Assuming the price is equal, which is the best choice?.

I'm a beginner in DSLR photography and all I want is an all-round packet with a possibility to upgrade later if this would be necessary (50mm portrait lens, external flash,....)..

Canon: 30D + 17-85 IS USM:* second hand lens and body* 8 Mpix* 1 year old body with 3000 clicks, first 30D came out in April 2006* optical stabilisation in the lens (lenses)* 1600mAh battery* ISO 3200* lens has aperture F/4-5.6* lens has 5x optical zoom.

Sony A200 + Sigma 17-70:* all new* 10 Mpix* new body* optical stabilisation in the body* 1100mAh battery* ISO 3200* lens has 3.1 optical zoom* lens has aperture F/2.8-4.5..

Comments (10)

RoelW wrote:.

Canon: 30D + 17-85 IS USM or Sony A200 + Sigma 17-70.

Assuming the price is equal, which is the best choice?I'm a beginner in DSLR photography and all I want is an all-roundpacket with a possibility to upgrade later if this would be necessary(50mm portrait lens, external flash,....)..

Canon: 30D + 17-85 IS USM:* second hand lens and body* 8 Mpix* 1 year old body with 3000 clicks, first 30D came out in April 2006* optical stabilisation in the lens (lenses)* 1600mAh battery* ISO 3200* lens has aperture F/4-5.6* lens has 5x optical zoom.

Sony A200 + Sigma 17-70:* all new* 10 Mpix* new body* optical stabilisation in the body* 1100mAh battery* ISO 3200* lens has 3.1 optical zoom* lens has aperture F/2.8-4.5.

That's a tough one.. because the 30D is very good higher end camera where the A200 is aveyr good entry level camera...

Both of them have features the other doesn't with stablization being the main... one for the Sony...

You can't get an stablized primes under 200mm like the 50 mm you are talking about for the Canon. Only Zooms..

But the 30D is a much better over all in build and IQ.. at higher ISO....

If you can get both for the same price ... as much as I like the Sony systems.. I would get the 30D...if you are sure it is working order since you don't have a warranty.. but the nice thing is you can get a used warranty from MACK in the US.

Ken_ 5D(Happy A700 owner who hasn't sold the 5D yet hmm?)See my stuff athttp://www.cascadephotoworks.comRead the detailed reviews athttp://www.dpreview.comThen read great Sony user info at:http://www.photoclubalpha.com..

Comment #1

The Canon is a superior camera in most every way. IMO, stabalization is not useful in wide focal lengths anyway and not so useful under 100mm. Moreover, with in-lens stabablization, you can actually see the steadying effect occur in the viewfinder..

The Canon is a semi-pro build camera with a magnesium body, not a plastic fantastic. It has a wonderful, real glass pentaprism up top instead of a consumer penta-mirror affair the Sony has. This gives you a bright, accurate viewfinder to compose your images instead of a dark tunnel looking view..

Your burst rates and high ISO performance means that sports and action photography will be more easily attained..

I mean if you got a 50 for portaits and had to use such a slow shutter speed where IS would be important, the subjects eyes or face could blink or twitch possibly during that long exposure, making IS useless. People generally don't take available-darkness portaits without really knowing what they're doing and doing it for dramatic effect using a tripod..

I think you're much better off with the vast range of accessories also available in the Canon world too..

Cheers, Craig..

Comment #2

Guidenet wrote:.

The Canon is a superior camera in most every way. IMO, stabalizationis not useful in wide focal lengths anyway and not so useful under100mm. Moreover, with in-lens stabablization, you can actually seethe steadying effect occur in the viewfinder..

The Canon is a semi-pro build camera with a magnesium body, not aplastic fantastic. It has a wonderful, real glass pentaprism up topinstead of a consumer penta-mirror affair the Sony has. This givesyou a bright, accurate viewfinder to compose your images instead of adark tunnel looking view..

Your burst rates and high ISO performance means that sports andaction photography will be more easily attained..

I mean if you got a 50 for portaits and had to use such a slowshutter speed where IS would be important, the subjects eyes or facecould blink or twitch possibly during that long exposure, making ISuseless. People generally don't take available-darkness portaitswithout really knowing what they're doing and doing it for dramaticeffect using a tripod..

I think you're much better off with the vast range of accessoriesalso available in the Canon world too..

While I agree the 30D is much better built and capable camera outside of the stabilization.. "Stabilization under 100mm has no value" is a typical Canon excuse because Canon has not given much choice there since THEY chose what lenses are stabilized..

First one has to think outside of the box.

Here are two shots of mine using 45mm and stabilization to let me hand hold shots that use shutter speed creatively:.

45 mm 1/8s handheld..

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

50mm 1/10 sec.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

And here is link to one of the best slow shutter speed street shots I have seen taking by someone elsehttp://forums.dpreview.com/...forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=28925161.

Ever see one of those water fall shots where the water is a blurr of motion.. with stabilization you can shoot that often with out a trip pod..

Lack of useful lens formats that are stabilized is a real weakness for Canon and Nikon.. ALL my lenses new and used are stabilized...

Ken_ 5D(Happy A700 owner who hasn't sold the 5D yet hmm?)See my stuff athttp://www.cascadephotoworks.comRead the detailed reviews athttp://www.dpreview.comThen read great Sony user info at:http://www.photoclubalpha.com..

Comment #3

My concern is that image stabilisation is a quite new technology which will become better inthe next years.With Canon, you have to change your lenses..

With Sony, you just have to buy a new body after app 5 years and get the latest technology CMOS sensor, image processor,faster framerate...AND image stabilisation..

How do you guys consider the difference in resolution, 8Mpix vs 10Mpix?The latter seems me better for crops..

About the plastic body: I read this everywhere on all forums but I've never seen anyone with a broken body because it was made of plastic instead of magnesium...

Comment #4

RoelW wrote:.

My concern is that image stabilisation is a quite new technologywhich will become better inthe next years.With Canon, you have to change your lenses.With Sony, you just have to buy a new body after app 5 years and getthe latest technology CMOS sensor, image processor,fasterframerate...AND image stabilisation..

How do you guys consider the difference in resolution, 8Mpix vs 10Mpix?The latter seems me better for crops..

About the plastic body: I read this everywhere on all forums but I'venever seen anyone with a broken body because it was made of plasticinstead of magnesium..

You are right about that.. so if you are thinking about the system this way and looking towards camera and lens purchases and value inbody stablization.. then even thought the 30D is an excellent camera.. pick the system you want..

And the key the A200 "upgrades" all the old lenses made before stablization. That is a real benefit..

You will be hard pressed to see a difference between 8MP and 10 MP...the moves from 6mp to 10mp starts to show just as the move from 8 to 12 might. but 6 to 8 or 8 to 10 or especially 10 to 12... not a big enough change. and Canon's 8MP sensor has great low light performance..

Ken_ 5D(Happy A700 owner who hasn't sold the 5D yet hmm?)See my stuff athttp://www.cascadephotoworks.comRead the detailed reviews athttp://www.dpreview.comThen read great Sony user info at:http://www.photoclubalpha.com..

Comment #5

RoelW wrote:.

My concern is that image stabilisation is a quite new technologywhich will become better inthe next years.With Canon, you have to change your lenses.With Sony, you just have to buy a new body after app 5 years and getthe latest technology CMOS sensor, image processor,fasterframerate...AND image stabilisation..

Stabalization is not that new. Will it become better? Maybe. The Canon lenses will be just fine down the road..

But the issue of build is more than you might think. Real glass pentaprism. Nice viewfinder. Quick response and fast frame rates..

How do you guys consider the difference in resolution, 8Mpix vs 10Mpix?The latter seems me better for crops..

As Ken says, not enought to worry about..

About the plastic body: I read this everywhere on all forums but I'venever seen anyone with a broken body because it was made of plasticinstead of magnesium..

See which inspires confidence. See which doesn't. See which holds up in the long run. I think the camera Ken uses is a metal body, the A700..

Look, I admit I'm not a Sony fan. I'm not even a Canon fan. I am a Nikon lover, and I admit that a lot of my bias concerning Sony is because of the company and it's high handed methods, but I also don't care for their cameras. Just my opinion..

LOL>. even Ken is hanging on to his Canon 5D..

Cheers, Craig..

Comment #6

Guidenet wrote:.

RoelW wrote:.

My concern is that image stabilisation is a quite new technologywhich will become better inthe next years.With Canon, you have to change your lenses.With Sony, you just have to buy a new body after app 5 years and getthe latest technology CMOS sensor, image processor,fasterframerate...AND image stabilisation..

Stabalization is not that new. Will it become better? Maybe. TheCanon lenses will be just fine down the road..

But the issue of build is more than you might think. Real glasspentaprism. Nice viewfinder. Quick response and fast frame rates..

How do you guys consider the difference in resolution, 8Mpix vs 10Mpix?The latter seems me better for crops..

As Ken says, not enought to worry about..

About the plastic body: I read this everywhere on all forums but I'venever seen anyone with a broken body because it was made of plasticinstead of magnesium..

See which inspires confidence. See which doesn't. See which holds upin the long run. I think the camera Ken uses is a metal body, theA700..

Look, I admit I'm not a Sony fan. I'm not even a Canon fan. I am aNikon lover, and I admit that a lot of my bias concerning Sony isbecause of the company and it's high handed methods, but I also don'tcare for their cameras. Just my opinion..

LOL>. even Ken is hanging on to his Canon 5D..

Its a Konica Minolta 5D. Canon 5D too much cash for a average build.. hoping Canon gets around to sealing the replacement's body...

Yes the a700 is a metal body and has decent seals unlike the 30D / 40D.

Not sure Sony is any more highhanded that most other large companies... and it will take some of that to make a dent against Canon and Nikon and also motivate them to compete more....

Cheers, Craig.

Ken_ 5D(Happy A700 owner who hasn't sold the 5D yet hmm?)See my stuff athttp://www.cascadephotoworks.comRead the detailed reviews athttp://www.dpreview.comThen read great Sony user info at:http://www.photoclubalpha.com..

Comment #7

I didn't mean high handed in that way. I have just not liked the way Sony has pushed proprietary Sony stuff on the market. Memory sticks for starters. Malware on music CDs for another. I'm also not sure I like the idea of perpetuating point and shoot charactoristics in the SLR world with a liveview based on a movie using different sensors. My Nikon will probably copy, dammit..

You seem to be a good photographer and probably are passionate about your craft, but I see these moves helping to remove the passion and replace with people holding SLRs out and arms length staring at LCDs for composition. Why bother with an SLR at all? Why bother with beautiful glass pentaprisms if people are not going to understand them? Many of these new guys are more interested in techno-marvels than good cameras. This guy is considering a plastic penta-mirror over a quality camera, for example. I'd rather have your A700 used and beat up than the A200 brand new. At least I'm getting some quality even if it is a Sony. .

Maybe I'm just too old or elitist. I don't know, Ken. Too jaded. LOL.

Cheers, Craig..

Comment #8

Guidenet wrote:.

I didn't mean high handed in that way. I have just not liked the waySony has pushed proprietary Sony stuff on the market. Memory sticksfor starters. Malware on music CDs for another. I'm also not sure Ilike the idea of perpetuating point and shoot charactoristics in theSLR world with a liveview based on a movie using different sensors.My Nikon will probably copy, dammit..

You seem to be a good photographer and probably are passionate aboutyour craft, but I see these moves helping to remove the passion andreplace with people holding SLRs out and arms length staring at LCDsfor composition. Why bother with an SLR at all? Why bother withbeautiful glass pentaprisms if people are not going to understandthem? Many of these new guys are more interested in techno-marvelsthan good cameras. This guy is considering a plastic penta-mirrorover a quality camera, for example. I'd rather have your A700 usedand beat up than the A200 brand new. At least I'm getting somequality even if it is a Sony. .

Maybe I'm just too old or elitist. I don't know, Ken. Too jaded. LOL.

Cheers, Craig.

I'm with you on live view... but for a consumer class camera Sony's is actually useful for shooting the soccor game over the heads of other parents etc. But I would not trade my VF for..

I am sure the View camera guys thought the same about the SLRs for tourists.. .

This is key... those cameras fund the division so they can do the ones we like..

Memory stick does what it needed to which is give Sony a compact format because SD RAM is licensed technology from Sony competators it is not open like CF cards.. and others have licensed memory stick the SD RAM group uses thier format for the same reason Sony use Memstick.

Sony unlike Nikon has a music devision.. so we have to deal with the annoyances of that...:(.

Ken_ 5D(Happy A700 owner who hasn't sold the 5D yet hmm?)See my stuff athttp://www.cascadephotoworks.comRead the detailed reviews athttp://www.dpreview.comThen read great Sony user info at:http://www.photoclubalpha.com..

Comment #9

This guy is considering a plastic penta-mirrorover a quality camera, for example..

Maybe I'm just too old or elitist. I don't know, Ken. Too jaded. LOL.

Cheers, Craig.

Is a pentaprism that much better then a pentamirror?Is this difference important?.

And how about another difference between both that I forgot to mention: dust-reduction on the sensor. Sony has it on the A200, Canon not on the 30D.Is this really a benifit or marketing stuff like the Live View..

I agree that Live view is not necessary on a DSLR and that it's invented by markeers to sell their DSLR products to compact camera users but I find it hard to make the differnce between a real improvment or benefit and useless options and accesoiries..

I went to a shop yesterday and had the A200 and A700 in my hands. The difference is huge. The A700 feels a lot more solid. Buttons give a clear 'click' when pressed unless the A200...

Comment #10

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