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Hi everyone, quick 1st question: Anyone care to share some GoDaddy coupons or promos for 2011?.

My 2nd question is: .

I have recieved a few messages on how to get started in the email marketing business so I decided to make a post out of it. The industry is tough, no question about it. Each ISP has their own system in place of preventing unwanted e-mail (SPAM). Unfournately this affects us legitimate e-mail marketers. The guys who are making the $$ are the ones who are succesfully able to deliver to the major ISPs (AOL, hotmail, yahoo, etc).

These people are the BIGBOYS of the industry. You never hear a peep out of them because they are so flawless with their methods. CPA Networks adore.

These mailers and will bend over backwards to satisfy their needs.

So how do you make a solid profit from email marketing? Great question, follow the old cliche, "It takes money to make money". A few years ago I would have said," download X product, load this list and your ready to go"..

Now to be Can-Spam compliant you need Full data, valid unsubscribe, own server no proxies, and have a physical remove address. (Notice the paradox, You CAN SPAM as long as you have those 4 things). Servers, mailing software, data do not come cheap. Here is a list of tools you need.

Mailing Software - Anywhere from $5,000 - $20,000 per license or $1,000 - $3,000/ month to rent. Im not talking about simple windows based programs that you load up and import list to. You need solid unix based mailers that can handle complaint removal, track clicks and opens, take care of unsubscribes etc. I use a mailign system called VoloMP. Others i've heard are good are nexxus, celibero, and savicom..

Servers - Depending on the speed and who you buy them from these can run upwards from $300 to $3,000 a month. Your mailing software company knows the ideal specs to have on your server. Ask them for the right setup..

Domains - Each IP you are mailing from needs it's own domain. The cheap domains like .info automatically recieve spamassassin points because they are notrious spammer domains. You need .com or .net domains. Some ISPs like hotmail need a few ips to consistantly get through. I reccomend At least 20 ips to work with. Each domain will cost ya about $8 a piece.



Data - Ah yes, solid data. Very important your data is clean of any sort of spam trap. Spamhaus and spamcop will eat you alive if you have their emails in your list. If you can generate your own email addresses from your websites, great you are ahead of the game. Most people will need to find sources to get their data from. Buyer beware! Trust your sources.

As to where to get data from? Well I cannot really say only because my sources would not approve of me posting their contact info on message boards. if your searious about email marketing PM and I can possibly find some for you..

Good data can run ya about $1k- $4k per mil but you might be able to find some cheaper if ya look hard enough..

List Manager - These are used to sort your data. What if you want to break your list up according to domain or split the list in half? You need a list manager to accomplish this goal. I use listmate pro. lightspeedmarketing also makes a good one. Mine cost me $800..

Your welcome, you wont find this content anywhere. It's very hard to get into this business from scratch. Most people who jump in the email game already have an established business and have the resources to expand. Some people are making thousands on a daily basis using the tools I listed above too. I hope this clears things up a bit. Best of luck!..

Comments (65)

Your question was: Anyone care to share some GoDaddy coupons or promos for 2011?.

Aweber is smalltime. You have to send out a confirmation email to all recipients asking them to click a link to re-subsribe to your list. Only those people who click the link on that first email can be part of your list...

Comment #1



Atomic009;.

Please give this guy a break.. I thought the post was very interesting. Where do you see him selling anything?? Does he have any links to his own ebooks or products?? No.

I'm sure there is tons of cracked and free similar software out there though, and research is good before starting anything up. But some pointers and info about the biz from someone experienced in it is always nice..

+rep to skrilla...

Comment #2



Lyris is made for newsletters. I own a copy of it. Skrilla you had only 24 post how did anyone hit you up about mailing. Is this Steve?..

Comment #3



Are you sure? I was referring to this Send targeted email messages with Lyris ListHosting..

Comment #4



The range of what you can use is varied for sure. On the high end you can get a branded setup, but you're talking in the five figure range just to get one server up and going (though your throughput will be astounding). On the lower end there are actually programs like SendStudio that you can marry with high capacity MTAs that will do an approximate job, but handy features like rate limiting and per domain rules suffer the lower you go on the totem pole (and you end up having to figure out other things like how to handle your own bounces). He's right about high end MTAs starting around $5K, though you can really get by with something smaller for your list management for a while.

Of course if you don't have a ton of names you don't have to start off with a high volume MTA, you can just get a UNIX admin familiar with qMail or something to get you set up. Your throughput is going to go down from the seven figure daily range to the low-to-mid six figure daily range (this depends on a lot of variables), your cost also drops by thousands of dollars. The thing is that he's basically right, it's a numbers game and the numbers catch up pretty quickly. To equal the output of a good MTA you end up needing at least 3-4 servers running a tweaked version of whatever you use (qMail, postfix, sendmail) and your hosting and maintenance costs on those on a year to year basis (even assuming your needs stay flat, which they won't) always outpaces what you would have spent just plunking down the money for the high volume MTA..

As a side note, for the kind of volume and operation that Skrilla is talking about you can all but forget using ESPs. He's talking about setting up your own mailing operation using sourced data. That means you can stop asking about the various hosted solutions you've heard of (AWeber, topica, whatever)...

Comment #5



I've been in the list management biz for about 4-5 years. It's certainly not cheap to get into and be prepared to make lots of mistakes if you don't have a mentor. The best advice I can give, is to do everything in a legitmate way. We send about 10 million messages a day, and every single message has our REAL physical address in it. Every one of our domain's registration information will ring a phone in our office. We manage everything from Habeas certified lists down to Co-Reg data.



Just my opinion.

Steve..

Comment #6



I didn't know there way any legal way of mailing besides spam. I'm a former spammer (email) and now legit and from my experience (7 years) legit mailing isn't really worth it. again, my 2 cents.....

Comment #7



It can be worth it, but it certainly isn't easy. We have found a little niche that serves us well. We're never going to build a big list management company like Datran but that's not our goal. We have a handful of just the right lists to manage. We work hard to learn what each list responds to and stick to that. We do have some of our lists Habeas certified but this only gives us help getting whitelisted on some networks and a few other small benefits.



Regards,.

Steve..

Comment #8



We used Topica in the past and had a very bad experience with them. They never returned our calls and their customer service is very poor. We tried a whole host of 3rd party ESP and found a few that worked but they are all expensive. I agree with Skrilla Email marketing is a great business but it certainly isnt cheap and it takes a dedicated team to get the job done. You can count on at least the following team..

1)Creative designer - for HTML creative and landing pages.

2)List manager- Segment list, Purchase lists.

3)IT deliverabilty team- Rotate Ip's etc.

4)Marketing Director- Works on optimizing landing pages, headlines, call to action etc.

5)Creative writer- Writes all content for HTML and Landing pages.

6)Project manager- Keeps offers fresh and oversees entire plan.

If you can keep consistent deliverabilty, have good lists and keep conversions strong you will enjoy the fruits of your labor. But it is not a game you can play anymore from your basement oof your home as a weekend warrior...

Comment #9



Nothin, he did well enough at the time.

Was just more of an oh wow he's still around..

Comment #10



[quote=skrilla;120434]I have recieved a few messages on how to get started in the email marketing business so I decided to make a post out of it. The industry is tough, no question about it..

I have a few questions. There are a few companies asking $19.9 for 100million mails and $500 for 1 billion mails. What check list you suggest before we buy the list from them..

Also there are a few companies like Bulk Email with Web Traffic Marketing's Safe List.

They claim to send 2.7million mails per blast. once a day and for.

Life they cost $40. Pls. advise on both...

Comment #11

For only $19.99?! you kidding me? Theres no way this can be Can-Spam compliant. + if the offer is too good to be true it prob is. This looks like someone trying to make a quick buck or $40. I wouldn't trust something like this. PLenty of scammers out there. Also there is no mention of any ISP relations...

Comment #12



I agree with Skrilla. I can say with 100% certainty that it is not worth it at half the price. You will do nothing but get blocked before you get a thousand messages out - or worse. Those lists contain countless spamhaus and spamcop traps. Even if you scrub it with a quality list - the data is still going to be 99.9% useless.

To put things in perspective. A good quality (i'm using this term loosely folks co-reg feed of about 4 million a month is about $1500 to $2500 and you will throw away about 60% of that..

If you're interested in a co-reg feed PM me and I may be able to help get you started in the right direction..

But in general if you're going to buy data instead of generate it yourself. You will do yourself a big favor by becoming an educated buyer first...

Comment #13



Does anyone not have spamtraps in their coreg lists that they buy now?..

Comment #14



Thank you for a very informative post.

How would one make sure that there are no SpamHaus/SpamCop traps on the list? Seems like it would be very difficult to find them...

Comment #15



Hi all I'm new here, but not new to the biz. I agree with most in this thread, it isnt easy to get into this biz anymore. It is also expensive as hell, Our Nexus boxes cost us $12k a pop (legit copies) But there is still money in it, not as much as there was but still fairly good...

Comment #16



If there are no budget constraints, is it still possible to get into the legit mailing biz somewhat easily? $2500 for 4 million emails is nothing for me. I could buy 30k a month of that stuff without breaking a sweat.

I am not stranger to the Internet biz, but mailing is something I haven't done for six years.

Assuming I have the money (Which I do), can I still break into this business and establish ties like co-registration feeds? How do you become an "educated buyer" as far as buying these lists go? What do you need to do to ensure you are buying a quality list? I would assume demanding a free "test list" is the key? Anything else?.

My biggest worry is getting filtered. I have no clue on how to get whitelisted. Is it mostly an ip/domain rotation (Ips and domains YOU own) game as well as getting compliant with Sender ID, domainkeys, and SPF or do you have to suck off the postmaster of each ISP/email provider?.

Edit: Also what is an MTA?.

Edit2: Also is it possible to mail CPA offers rather than your own offers? Someone a few posts up mentioned making your own creatives and landing pages, but don't most CPA networks have some creatives ready to use? I get a lot of CAN SPAM compliant mail in my mailbox, and it is all creatives made by the advertiser rather than creatives the mailer made from scratch...

Comment #17



There are different ways to get into mailing. You can use a system like ybrant.com or volomp.com and a pay a CPM to mail. You can also go high end and get a strongmail system (costs 2 arms and an unborn child per license) but it works. Also there are a number of other systems out there like robomail & stedb.

Getting data isn't hard but isn't easy. if you want to go through brokers, sure it's easy but bet your pants it's whored data. if you want direct data feeds you need to dig a little and find the companies yourself. A lot of the feeds end up coming from people that bought coreg from a site or path (like webclients, promopath, memolink, netblue, adteractive though a lot of the feeds come from smaller sites and coreg paths.) and then are trying to make some money back to cover their costs. The best way to mail is to get actual websites to give you data to list manage. Once upon a time it was easy, now people don't like their databases whored so most of these deals go to datran, GRS and through personal relationships.

The hardest thing to find is a data center that will support high volume mailing and not kill your servers and within that one that will make sure you have virgin IP's.

The ISPs are getting tougher though and are starting to look at IP history and give more weight to consistently clean IP's. Still virgin Class C's are what are needed. There are a couple of good data centers out there. and you want them to be in the US, the ISP's don't look nicely on Chinese & indian IP's.

The other risk is legal, if you mail, expect the occasional lawsuit. It happens, all networks and mailers, no matter how compliant get stuck once in a while. It may be for running a gift card offer or a pissed of lawyer that you "spammed" (even if they did opt-in) but it happens and expect to have some cash on the side to deal with legal otherwise you will experience the "mailing effect" of burning out.

At the end of the day mailing is a good business and makes a lot of money but you need to be careful.

If you have the cash go with Lyris or Strongmail. They know the space cold. If you don't find a good data center and try stedb or robo mailer.

The best thing is to work with someone that does it now or knows it so you don't run into a wall..

Richie..

Comment #18



Hi,.

I wish to start "Can spam compliant" sending again, I was out of business due to ISP problem.( not due to me).

Last time I was using.....

1. Simple DNS Plus.

2.Send-Safe software for compliant sending... without using the proxy features.

3. A good bounce handler like.. BounceStudio Enterprise 4.3 / boogietools.com.

I have very good email list, all big ISP, the problem is to send them properly.

I m not sure, that send safe will do the job or not, Please suggest me this is the right approach? If Not.

Then Please suggest me about "Cost Per Mail basic" mailers..

Some body suggest it,.

" You can use a system like ybrant.com or volomp.com and a pay a CPM to mail.".

Please suggest me, which should be the better? May be I m asking too much? well, that's why I wish to upgrade,.

I wish to upgrade.

Thanks.

I hope this time I get responce..

Comment #19



But this discussion is not yet completed...Which is the best windows based mass mailer or server based one's? Please name the softwares and scripts that could be used for mass mailing and not double opt-in techniques..

Is YMASS good for Yahoo Groups Marketing?..

Comment #20



Is porn the best offer to email out to a general list?..

Comment #21



Hey man thanks for the great post ive been doing doing "small" mailing and have had success but I am looking to take it to the next level...

Comment #22

If you would really like to get in email marketing biz then you must have a strategy in place along with certain tools and services.

In addition to that, you have to have some copywriting skills with a strong call for participation...

Comment #23



Start collecting names and email addresses from whatever niche you are promoting no matter what...

Comment #24



I hear a lot of expensive servers etc. being mentioned..

I have taken the cheapest route possible through a newsletter service offered by 1 and 1. There is no auto responder but it does have a 2 step optin process which is important to me..

I have noticed with this service that I only get 20% of my subscribers opening my emails consistently..

Does anyone have experience with 1and 1, how reliable are their statistics and email delivery..

Thanks..

Comment #25



Yes, surely the best way to make money is not to spend too much at the beginning...

Comment #26



Are there any windows based mailing software? I have a windows server not really being used...

Comment #27



I was just eating my head here on WF for email marketing stuff and got to read this interesting stuff by skrilla. Really looks interesting shit,..

Comment #28



All I want to say is this thnaks for the info and ideas for this sites nice posting..

Comment #29



Thanks Skrilla. Do you think affiliates should use smtp.com to deliver emails?.

Sam..

Comment #30

I've never used them and havent really heard of anyone using them as well so I guess it's kind of a shot in the dark...

Comment #31



What are your thoughts on interspire?.

Whats a good mid range company?.

Looks like aweber is on the small end, while volomp is at the opposite extreme...

Comment #32



Hey email marketing isnt my thing so dont call me stupid. But I have a legit list of a million email contact's I bought when I first started Internet marketing. (bad days) Anything I can do with this list?..

Comment #33

Depends when you bought it, many of the emails could be dead/not used anymore...

Comment #34



Actually not to long ago. I just dont know what to do with it......

Comment #35



Well are they niche-related emails or just completely random unlabelled pieces of shit?.

If it's the former, I would do the obvious and search for some related cpa offers, throw up an lp, and send out an email promoting them. I would first send out an email to 10% of that list to test out the offer, optimize and send to the next 10%, optimize, and send out to the next 10%, etc.... until you're satisfied...

If it's the latter (a piece of shit), I don't really know what to say beside just hit that shit hard with a bunch of offers. starting with dating which IMO would be the most "general". but I guess you could try promoting various "hot" free trials as well..

Regardless, that list is probably mostly dead now....

Comment #36



There's another ESP called Griffith Park Media located in LA- they are a lot smaller than Volo etc. but have all the same functionality as other mailing platforms (generate content, host images, etc.) with added features to accommodate list management, auto-scrub, segregate rev-share data, and also specialize in advanced geo and demographic targeting and analysis. They are strong with AOL, Hotmail and GenNet and prices are better than the industry average because they are small and emphasis is on customer support...

Comment #37

Would you like to tell everyone .. what data center is good to deal with while doing bulk mailing..

Sam..

Comment #38



I'm planing on scraping emails and using a mailer to send out those emails by using rotating proxies. My startup cost will run me 300+ dollars...

Comment #39



I like web mailer system like Mail Devil wimsoftware.com/MailDevil.html.

Good for 90% inbox..

Comment #40



I have the best email marketing system on the internet today that is spam-free. If your interested in email marketing contact me at skype physical2006. I would never recommend anyone having an online business without this system. I have been in online business for 12 plus years...

Comment #41



To get in to e mail marketing follow the following steps:.

1.create and send beautiful news letters and follow ups..

2.tack customers and analyze the campaigns..

3.spread the word with instand words on twitter(twitter means used to share information for one single question)..

4.grab attention of customers by doing video emails ...

Comment #42



I totally agree with Skrilla on the notion above of having some company send emails to 10million for how much???????? $19.99 that's crazy and totally unrealistic in my opinion. these are considered rip-offs out there.

Anyone looking into email marketing biz has to do things legally and realistically. And for starters, it's good to start out small by building a list. As simple as that...

Comment #43



I think you should just do away with it if you feel it's a burden. But on the other hand, you can monetize it if you want. Feel free to PM and i'll give you the info on how to go about that, if you want to..

Comment #44



I got into the email marketing biz like 2 months ago, some guy I know told me he was making 3to 500 almost everyday. He told me to get a vps and mail from there, he was helping me then he left me hanging, I guess because I asked him 1000 questions. So far I had no luck, I was doing viagra because he sold me a list I get hits but no sales. I been mailing but no money coming in, maybe my list is dead. I download from worldwideemailaddresses.com so I got a huge list and I found other new list but no money. I also tried cpa offers most stuff goes in the spam box when I send samples to my gmail and mail.com email addresses. I need some help I'm willing to pay somebody to help me getting the money to start rolling in...

Comment #45



Good Topic, I learned that it's too early to jump into this. But I agree with someone who said that you need to colect emails in niche your in. So much to learn..

Comment #46



I'm new to wickedfire. Thanks for your sharing. It is excellent...

Comment #47

Hi Rich,.

I really enjoyed your post on Wicked Fire. I have been into email marketing since 1995 and things have sure changed. Actually, you will find this interesting, I gave up with online registration. All my subscribers come from offline registration. I sign people up at home shows, convnetions, trade shows, etc. They go into my consumer group and agree to receive multiple offers from me in return I load them up monthly with discounts, free stuff, etc.

Best,.

Jason Secord.

ESenders.info..

Comment #48



Has anyone heard or experienced list marketer or jpgmail?..

Comment #49



What the hell is this? lol, look at this. Direct link to this thread from a new ebook or something?..

Comment #50

I know both of those companies. What do you want to know?..

Comment #51



Are they good to work with? Any positive or negative feedback on both. I am thinking of trying jpgmail...

Comment #52



Good news.This is a great post. I like this topic.This site has lots of advantage. I found many interesting things from this site. It helps me many away..So I want some information for sharing this side with some of my friend. Thanks..

Comment #53



Always there for search engine optimization and internet marketing with a passion...

Comment #54



That's why you need to validate all the addresses you have before you send the emails, and when you buy a database, ask if they are validated before you pay, there are software like groupmail, that helps in the process of validation of the databases, always check your database before..

Comment #55



Very informative, yet again a great post. Renting out a license is quite expensive now, it's definitely something everyone should look into. Everyone has a email these days, and what better method of advertising is there. Good job..

Thanks,.

Adrian Winston..

Comment #56



Nice posting. Email marketing has proven very successful for those who do it right...

Comment #57



Agreed. This is a very informative overview. Your offers and lists of people you choose to send them to will be a strong factor in determining success..

Good luck!..

Comment #58



I'm only going to post this ONCE. I'm not entirely sure if this is within the TOS, so if it isn't, mods please be nice and delete and PM me.

My partner and I have opened up our proprietary email platform. Basically it works like this. I have 8 guys currently and am looking for a total of 20. I teach each person one on one for a few hours every other day. If say for instance you were to come on board, after about a month you would have gone from being a total novice (That's an assumption of course. I have no way of knowing your current capabilities) to being a pro emailer.

We provide the main server, software, IP tunneling system, and 25ish mil coreg records per month.

The margins work like this.. it's a 60/40 revenue share where you take 60% and we take 40%. On average your ROI would typically be $500 for every $100 you spend on domains / IP's. I have some guys doing $1k per $100. I would teach you how to optimize everything basically to max out your revenue. We are looking for guys that will have the drive to scale this up to $5k per day..

There are some up front costs. Namely I charge $10k for the training but that $10k is reimbursed directly out of the revenue share. Meaning you take the first $10k in revenue that comes in. The reason I charge this is that it allows me to qualify people based on their level of seriousness and their commitment level. Recouping the initial $10k investment happens very early if you follow through.

One of my guys that I trained won the Adstation contest last month. He was in the top 5 of affiliates on their network that increased their month to month earnings most dramatically in a single month after coming on board with our system. I also have a few other guys here that bringing in $500 to $700 per day consistently so far. I'm working with them on ways to start to scale up.

I also still have a few guys in training and a bit of a waiting list...

Comment #59

I understand Aweber is small time, but if we're just starting out with limited funds.....isn't "smalltime" better than not at all? Sure, I have to jump through a few extra hoops to get people to join/stay on my list....but that's the offset for not having the cash...right?.

Just a thought....afterall, I am brand new, so how much do I really know?..

Comment #60

Do you show them only how to mail or how to do all things associated with email. For example, how to;.

Accumulate data.

List share with other LM's.

Etc, etc.

Being a mailer myself I can assure you that there is a lot to understand in this business to see a positive return on investment..

Comment #61

Where is the best place to host my Mass Emailing PHP Script? I don't want to get blocked or banned by my ISP or any Hosting provider...

Comment #62



Did anyone use MailChimp? Any suggestions before I buy it will be appreciated...they also have an iphone app...

Comment #63



To all you masters of mayhem and email debochary...I am looking for the so called guru who can put me in the right email situation. I have deeeeep pockets, and I am looking for the big brain out there that can put in the direction of a qulified Nexus system. I also need a complete run down of how to have the greatest success with it, and how to modify it to it's highest potential. If you are a person that can help with my request, I will compensate you generously...reply to my post with the best way to reach out to you...

Comment #64



Hello i've used Griffith park media for sending out e-mails but I didn't have much luck learning the software from my business partner but now have a new rev share partner and he pointed me to expert sender which they are still getting back to me on the price. I was curious though about the effectiveness of Mail Devil for high volume lists. Can anyone let me know, I appreciate it..

Comment #65


This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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